________________________________________<\/p>\n
Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n There doesn’t seem to be a requirement for two-deep leadership at troop meetings. There\u2019s only a requirement for trips and outings. The only additional rule is that of no one-on-one private contact between an adult and a Scout. So it seems that as long as there are several Scouts and one registered adult, there\u2019s no problem. Is this correct or am I missing something? (Michael Harrington)<\/strong><\/p>\n Nope, you’re not missing a thing. You’ve got it exactly right. I recently was introduced to you\u2014great stuff! I have three questions\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n The first one should be simple, but it seems when I asked if we only needed someone who\u2019d had Outdoor Webelos Leader (OWL) Training to go on a Webelos den outing or overnighter. Our Cubmaster as well as several at the district and council levels were split on this being sufficient. Half say we also need to be BALOO trained. Further confusing was the fact that one of my Assistant Den Leaders was BALOO trained, but because it was a few years ago and she wasn’t yet registered with our pack (we\u2019d just enlisted her as an ADL\u2014some years before, she\u2019d been a DL with our pack), someone at the council level rejected our Tour Plan. There ended up being an open BALOO training session just before the overnighter we\u2019d planned, so it worked out okay. But it was quite frustrating, especially with those divided opinion on this.<\/strong><\/p>\n My second question\u2019s about Den Chiefs. Much of the Webelos program focuses on bringing in a Den Chief, introducing The Patrol Method, etc. We decided from the get-go to start this Webelos I year with a Den Chief, but most other packs in our district start this in Year II. Is this not okay? I can’t for the life of me see any down-side to providing more time to “transition” the Webelos.<\/strong><\/p>\n Last one: I’ve read that it\u2019s not recommended to have dens larger than eight (\u201cA den is a group of six to eight boys”). Last year, we had seven in our den, but over the summer we gained more boys and now have 13 in the den. I’m the DL, and I have two ADLs who are more than capable (both have been DLs in the past), so I\u2019m confident we have sufficient leadership. I’ve spoken with the Cubmaster and we agreed to give it a try at this size and, if everything is still moving smoothly, to continue; but, if necessary, split. I have mixed feelings about this. The original seven have all been together for so long they\u2019re really close, but I don’t want to let the new boys become a separate den because I’d like them to feel “included.” Any thoughts on this one in particular? (Chris Harmon)<\/strong><\/p>\n Thanks for becoming a new reader! I’ll try to help as much as possible, and keep things as simple as possible, so here we go…<\/p>\n First, BALOO is the required training, according to the BSA’s Tour Plan. OWL training is recommended for Webelos, but isn’t listed on the Tour Plan. The non-registered pack leader who had taken, but was not recognized for, BALOO training is a council-related hiccup.<\/p>\n Second, introducing The Patrol Method is absolutely okay to do with first-year Webelos. The Webelos-Arrow of Light program is an 18-month program, unlike Tiger, Wolf, and Bear, which are each one year programs.<\/p>\n On your third question, a den of seven boys is just about perfect! A den of five is still okay, because this leaves room for growth. The boys that recently joined\u2014especially since some of them came from another pack\u2014should have brought their own Den Leader along, too. Or, if the former DL stayed behind, then among the five to ten new parents one should have stood up and become their Den Leader. Your pack absolutely has the right to hold folks’ feet to the fire on this one, otherwise you wind up in exactly the situation you’re facing: A den that’s way too big to be manageable. I suggest, at this point, that one of your ADLs steps up and becomes the DL for the new boys, and they have their own separate den number, just like all other dens. As for feeling “included,” this happens for all dens at the monthly pack meetings, while at the same time the boys will bond with one another in a smaller, more intimate group size. This also preserves the integrity of the seven boys who have been together from the outset. It’s not too late to make this split happen.<\/p>\n Thanks, Andy. Actually, I had asked their DL to be an ADL. We’ve bonded together as a large den, but I may talk to that ADL and possibly our Cubmaster about a potential den split. After all, we can always do some activities together, like campouts. (CH)<\/strong><\/p>\n You\u2019re right: There’s no reason why two dens can’t occasionally share events, but you need to look to the future… These boys will soon become Boy Scouts, and a patrol of your present size simply won’t work, whereas a patrol of seven and a patrol of five will work just fine! Remember that patrols of new Scouts are encouraged and expected to remain intact throughout their Boy Scouting experience, and a patrol of twelve will ultimately mean that (a) the size is unmanageable and (b) the size encourages attrition instead of stability and possible growth. We\u2019re not sure where to turn; we hope you can help. In our troop, there have been several Scoutmaster changes, and we\u2019re noticing an alarming trend. Each Scoutmaster seems to pick one Scout he doesn\u2019t like, and holds that Scout back on rank advancement, favoring some other Scout he does like. These Scoutmasters have even refused to sign off on merit badges when the Scout turns in his \u201cblue card,\u201d usually on some sort of technicality that\u2019s 100% fiction.<\/strong><\/p>\n Currently, we have two Scouts working toward Eagle. Instead of working on their own, they\u2019re using troop meetings for their work and telling the next Scout in the pecking order to bear full responsibility for what they\u2019re supposed to be doing as youth leaders. Meanwhile, since the Scouts know who\u2019s on the Scoutmaster\u2019s \u201cblack list,\u201d they\u2019ll pick on him with impunity and, when the Scout (or his parent) speaks up, the Scoutmaster brushes it off with, \u201cHe\u2019ll just have to get used to being bullied, because that\u2019s was part of growing up.\u201d Is there anything we, as parents, can do about things like this? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/p>\n For your description, the problem seems to run deeper that merely playing favorites. It looks like you’ve got a little tin god in charge here. Merit badges, once signed off by registered merit badge counselors, are done! Nobody else signs them off or can “reevaluate” requirements or how they were carried out. The unit leader’s signature at the back end isn’t “approval”\u2014it’s to signify that the card has been received and duly recorded as completed. End of story.<\/p>\n So what to do about this Napoleon… Well, you have three fundamental choices, depending on how involved you all want to get. Since your sons come first, always, one way to go is to simply find a new troop for them and immediately transfer them over\u2014run, don’t walk!<\/p>\n Or, you can ask for intervention from a Commissioner, in the hope that he or she can help this troop get itself on the right track. My concern here, of course, is that people who have a Napoleon complex are rarely fixable. So here’s the third option…<\/p>\n ALL parents whose sons are being slighted or mistreated go straight to the head of your chartered organization and demand that this Scoutmaster be replaced. But be prepared to do this en masse and it must be in person (NO “EMAIL WARS”!), and you’ve got to have someone among you who’s willing to step up, be the Scoutmaster, and do it right.<\/p>\n Now it’s your pick\u2014Talk it over with the other unhappy parents and decide which avenue you\u2019ll all rally behind. I\u2019m hoping you can clarify something in regards to service projects for rank advancement. In our troop, we\u2019ve come to an impasse on the interpretation of the service requirements for Star and Life (\u201cWhile a First Class\/Star Scout, take part in service project[s]totaling at least six hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster\u201d). Some of us, including me, believe that this should be an independent service project that has been discussed between the Scout and the Scoutmaster and then been approved for the rank requirement by the Scoutmaster. Others, including our Scoutmaster, feel that a combination of any service projects the troop does (e.g., tree planting, Goodwill Good Turn Day, etc.) should be acceptable because if the troop is doing them they\u2019ve already been approved by the Scoutmaster. But we have Scouts who want to count things like the annual Christmas tree recycling project. My stance is that something independent like this doesn\u2019t count as a service project because the Scouts who do this are paid for it (People leave their used Christmas trees out and, if they choose to, place money on the door for us picking them up; then we split the money collected for this event with the Scouts. Typically a Scout will work about four hours for about forty dollars.) I don\u2019t see that something you\u2019re being paid for should be counted as a service project. Most of the adults agree with this, except our Scoutmaster.<\/strong> I\u2019m the Advancement Chair for the troop and certainly want to do what\u2019s right for the Scouts, but when a Scout has his board of review and can\u2019t tell us what he did for service, it\u2019s frustrating to know the Scoutmaster signed off on this. We\u2019d like to put policies in place identifying what exactly would or wouldn\u2019t be acceptable when it comes to defining troop vs. individual service projects. Bottom line for all of us is that we want to do what is correct. Can you help us with this dilemma? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/p>\n The good news is that your troop doesn’t need to create any so-called policies. The BSA has already done this for you. It’s found in the language of those two requirements. The BSA tells us that it’s perfectly acceptable for a Scout to engage in multiple service projects\u2014troop projects or patrol projects, or even something the Scout himself would like to do (like volunteering at a local hospital, or showing up on “town cleanup day,” helping out at his place of worship, or anything else)\u2014so long as his Scoutmaster says OK (beforehand is always best). This can be a single project, or as many as the Scout would like to do, just so long as he commits a minimum of six hours to serving others.<\/p>\n As for a Scout’s “not remembering,” it sounds like this is a Scoutmaster conference oversight; not a Scout problem. When the Scoutmaster has a conference with a Scout ready to advance in rank, the two of them will (briefly) review the requirements in terms of where they were done, and what the Scout learned from these (of course, without this being a re-test). Then, assuming you’re running a good troop, with boards of review conducted speedily after the Scoutmaster conference (can even be the same night!), the Scout will be unlikely to have forgotten what he just discussed with his Scoutmaster.<\/p>\n On your final point, I don’t see for the life of me how working for pay could even remotely be considered “service.” “Service” is when a Scout mows his elderly neighbors’ lawn for them, without thought of reward; when the Scout is paid for this, it’s a money-earning job. In fact, unless he absolutely refuses a “gratuity” in the first instance above, it’s a money-earning job. But, this Christmas tree collection aside, service based on individual initiative, for worthy causes and organizations of the Scout\u2019s own choosing, are absolutely legit!<\/p>\n In sum, Scouts should be encouraged to do both: Earn their own way and help others without thought of reward. For the position of Den Chief, I\u2019ve seen all over the place that it\u2019s \u201crecommended\u201d that the Scouts be First Class or above, but I\u2019ve not seen any BSA official policy on the requirements. Is there a BSA regulation stating the requirements? I agree that a Scout should be First Class or above due to maturity level, experience, and the fact that the leadership experience won\u2019t count towards rank advancement until the Scout reaches First Class. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (Joe Sefcik, New Haven, CT)<\/strong><\/p>\n Here\u2019s the deal\u2026If there were a specific set of requirements, they\u2019d be stated. The BSA expects us to apply good judgment in all situations, and has provided a recommendation. The rest is up to you. As to First Class, while this is a good guideline (again, not a requirement) I can tell you from experience that there are other, more important factors, including great spirit, willingness to work under the direction of an adult (instead of a fellow Scout), the ability to relate to 8-to-10 year-olds and at the same time be the \u201colder brother\u201d to the Cubs\/Webelos, and\u2014most important\u2014the ability to smile a lot! As for dangling the famous bait, \u201cYou can use this toward your leadership requirement for Star\/Life\/Eagle,\u201d fuggetaboutit\u2026 The Scout who takes on this position for that reason alone is definitely not the Scout you want! I serve on a troop committee where two Life Scouts recently presented their Eagle Service Project proposals for unit committee approval. Turns out, the projects are identical, the only difference being that they\u2019ll be carried out at different locations on the qualified beneficiary\u2019s property. To further complicate this situation, the committee has just learned that two of our troop\u2019s other Life Scouts are considering the same project type for the same beneficiary. The GUIDE TO ADVANCEMENT states projects don\u2019t have to be original, but it also states that no more than one Eagle Scout candidate may receive credit for an Eagle Scout service project, and the project must provide sufficient opportunity to allow for the Scout to plan, develop, and give leadership to others.<\/strong><\/p>\n Everything else\u2014the beneficiary, proposals, safety issues, and nature of the service\u2014is okay. But, in reviewing the proposals, the committee noticed that, in several sections of the two proposals, sentences were word-for-word identical. Further, these two Life Scouts are brothers, and their planned helpers\u2014all adults, I\u2019m obliged to point out\u2014are exactly the same people in both proposals. What do we do? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/p>\n Based on your description, here are my top-of-mind concerns…<\/p>\n – While “originality” per se isn’t required, simultaneous duplicative work seems rather less than the intended spirit of the endeavor(s).<\/p>\n – When written plans match one another verbatim, this defeats the ideal of individual Scouts creating their own plans reflecting their own originality of viewpoint. They are either collaborating, which isn\u2019t permitted, or one is copying the other\u2019s work, which is even less in the spirit.<\/p>\n – The opportunity to show true leadership\u2014a key component of any such project\u2014is likewise compromised by having only adult helpers. Individual initiative is further compromised by the two lists of helpers being identical. Moreover, after the first project is completed, the adult “helpers” will know exactly what to do and how to do it, thereby further defeating the idea of a Scout-led project. (In effect, there’s nothing left to “instruct” or “guide”).<\/p>\n With no intention to pass the buck, have an immediate conversation with your District Advancement Chair (or whoever on the DAC is responsible for vetting Eagle projects). Ideally, make this in-person; try at all costs to avoid email, because you\u2019ll need a collaborative atmosphere and unified thinking.<\/p>\n Now the DAC may think all of this is just fine, but somehow I doubt it. I’d proceed with great caution here. I think that preliminary conversation is going to be absolutely critical.<\/p>\n Happy Scouting!<\/strong><\/em> Andy<\/strong><\/em> Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you\u2019d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that\u2019s what we\u2019ll do.)<\/strong><\/p>\n [No. 372 \u2013 11\/21\/2013 \u2013 Copyright \u00a9 Andy McCommish 2013]<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" ________________________________________ Dear Andy, There doesn’t seem to be a requirement for two-deep leadership at troop meetings. There\u2019s only a requirement for trips and outings. The only additional rule is that of no one-on-one private contact between an adult and a Scout. So it seems that as long as there are several Scouts and one registered […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[21],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1566","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-21"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1566","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1566"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1566\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1569,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1566\/revisions\/1569"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1566"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1566"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1566"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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\nHi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n
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\nDear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n
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\nHi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n
\n <\/strong><\/p>\n
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\nDear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n
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\nDear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n
\nHere\u2019s the down-the-road problem: Let\u2019s say the projects are approved and completed. Now it\u2019s up to the board of review to decide whether or not leadership given has been sufficient. Should these Scouts\u2019 projects fail this litmus test, the work, as far as rank advancement is concerned, will have been for naught. One or both of these Scouts would need to start again from scratch.<\/p>\n
\n <\/strong><\/p>\n
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