{"id":179,"date":"2004-12-06T10:16:52","date_gmt":"2004-12-06T15:16:52","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/?p=179"},"modified":"2011-11-06T10:19:58","modified_gmt":"2011-11-06T15:19:58","slug":"issue-45-december-2004","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/2004\/12\/issue-45-december-2004\/","title":{"rendered":"Issue 45 – December 2004"},"content":{"rendered":"

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

In my travels as a Friends of Scouting contribution \u201cencourager,\u201d I\u2019ve run into several men who were Scouts maybe fifty or so years ago, and a couple of them referred to themselves as a \u201cDouble-Eagle.\u201d I\u2019ve never heard of a \u201cDouble Eagle\u201d\u2014Do you have any idea what this means? (J.K., Patriots\u2019 Path Council, NJ)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Back in the 1950s, when the green uniform Exploring program was around\u2014when the original Explorer Silver Award actually meant something (before the \u201cCircle V\u201d program changed everything)\u2014Explorers earned ratings instead of merit badges for the ranks of Apprentice, Bronze, Gold, and Silver. There were nine different ratings: aviation, communications, craft, emergency, navigation, outdoor, physical fitness, seamanship, and vocational. In depth and extent of requirements, each rating was easily the equivalent of five to six merit badges, and it took a minimum of four ratings along with a myriad of social, outdoor, citizenship, and service activities, plus demonstrating leadership, to ultimately earn the Silver Award. So rigorous were these requirements that when you earned it, along with the Boy Scout Eagle, you were called a Double Eagle. (Would you like to guess how I happen to know this\u2026?)<\/p>\n

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

To earn the Summertime Award for Cub Scouts, can you use Day Camp and Resident Camp, if these were done as a Pack? Or does it have to be three other activities done by the Pack? This was a question that I\u2019ve had two different answers on, and I want to know for sure which is right. (Percy Shackles, UC, Osage Trails District, Great Rivers Council, Sedalia MO)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

The whole idea of the National Summertime Pack Award is to keep the Pack together and doing things in the summer, when the Cubs and their families have more free time. To earn it, all the Pack has to do is plan and carry out a Pack activity for June, July, and August. On that basis, virtually ANY Pack activity will “count”\u2014and they don’t even have to be different<\/em> activities\u2014so that should surely include a Pack’s participation in Day Camp and Resident Camp, so long as both weren’t done in the same month (in which case, you’d count one, but not both, toward the three activities needed over that three-month period). Seems like a no-brainer to me!<\/p>\n

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

A question has arisen as to the composition of a Board of Review for Eagle Palms<\/span>— What should the make-up be, and when is the Palm confirmed (or denied). My understanding is that once a decision of the Board of Review has been made, and the Scout\u2019s book signed, the award is considered earned. Please clarify, if this not the case. What do the BSA guidelines reflect with respect to this issue? (Ray Coser, West Central Florida Council)<\/em><\/strong>
\nThe Board of Review composition for Eagle Palms is exactly the same as Tenderfoot through Life: No less than three nor more than six members of the unit committee (specifically, registered unit committee members or unit committee chair\u2014registration codes MC and CC). On successful completion of a Board of Review for any<\/span> rank (which vote must be unanimous), everything for that rank is now done and the rank is in place, nor can it be withdrawn from the Scout at any later time, by any person, unit, district, or council. These aren\u2019t \u201cguidelines\u201d\u2014they\u2019re BSA policies<\/span>, and you’ll find them in the booklet, ADVANCEMENT COMMITTEE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES<\/span>. As for \u201cdenying\u201d an Eagle Palm at the Board of Review, something absolutely dramatic and totally unexpected must have occurred for this to happen, because, in the first place, we\u2019re already talking about an Eagle Scout<\/span>. Moreover, if the Scout is somehow found to be \u201cincomplete\u201d in meeting the requirements for a Palm (which, given the minimal requirements, would be pretty darned difficult!), he would not be \u201cdenied\u201d so much as he\u2019d be counseled on what more is expected of him (in writing, by the way), and given a time-frame and new Board date. This is also per BSA procedures.<\/p>\n

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Last month, you told a Scouter (Pedersenta6) that he could serve in two units at the same time. I\u2019d have to caution all Scouters helping more than one unit, especially those that are involved in two or more different chartering organizations. I\u2019ve had the unfortunate experience of dealing with leaders who\u2019ve tried to do that, with good intensions that have gone bad. Leaders finding themselves helping one unit and their boy belongs to another is really a bad combination, in my estimation. Here\u2019s an example: A Scoutmaster from a Troop at chartering organization \u201cA\u201d was also a Den Leader in a Pack sponsored by organization \u201cB.\u201d The Scoutmaster was encouraging the Cubs in that Pack to join his Troop, and this upset the Scoutmaster of the Troop sponsored by CO \u201cB\u201d because it left his Troop without any new Webelos joining CO \u201cB\u2019s\u201d Troop! It\u2019s a great thing to want to help out another unit, but good intensions do go bad if we\u2019re not careful with our own leadership skills. (Tim Gelvin, ADC, Susquehannock District, Susquehanna Council, PA)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Your concerns not withstanding, and I certainly agree that they’re important ones, I’m going to stand by my comments regarding dual roles in different units, when practicable. I’m also going to stand by my position that one’s own son’s unit\u2014be it a Pack, Den, or Troop\u2014always comes first. Your concerns, if you take a close look, have more to do with a dual-role leader overstepping the bounds of propriety than with the dual roles themselves. If one is both a Scoutmaster and a Den Leader, as was the case you described, then that person has an obligation to wear only one hat at a time. When we start to confuse our roles, or begin to blend them, disruptiveness if not chaos follows. The situation you describe went sour when the Den Leader started to wear his Scoutmaster’s hat in the wrong place, at the wrong time, for the wrong reason. This is about propriety; not about multiple roles. I’m not going to describe dual role combinations that are less susceptible to this sort of mismanagement–the permutations are too many. Besides, the central issue is not what Scouting job or jobs you have, but how well you\u2019re able to maintain the boundaries of each!<\/p>\n

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

I’ll be leaving the Commissioners staff later this month, and I\u2019ve accepted a Troop Committee position and will also become OA Chapter Advisor. So, I\u2019ll be re-patching a couple of my uniform shirts. When I do this, do I still wear the Commissioner\u2019s Arrowhead on the left sleeve and, if so, do I take off the “Trained” strip? (Tom Miller, ADC, Blue Ridge Council, SC)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Sorry! I didn’t read all the instructions before I sent you my question. DUH! (Tom Miller)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

So…You’ve figured out that only Commissioners in active service (that is, while wearing a Commissioner’s badge) wear the Arrowhead, Yes? But, I’m going to guess that you’ve received training in multiple areas, so that the TRAINED strip can probably stay in place (although I’d probably recommend moving it up on the sleeve, so that it’s just below your new position badge).<\/span><\/p>\n

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Our Council\u2019s service area, here in New Jersey, covers over 1,400 square miles (that\u2019s tw-thirds the size of Delaware and one-third larger<\/span> than the entire state of Rhode Island), yet our Order of the Arrow lodge steadfastly refuses to consider the idea having chapters that could align with our seven districts. They ignore the fact that, if we had chapters, more Arrowmen would be able to actively participate in OA activities, because the drive-time to chapter meetings would be vastly less than having to go to one semi-central location (for lodge meetings) from the far reaches of the council\u2019s perimeter. They ignore the fact that, with no \u201callegiance\u201d to or involvement with their home districts, there\u2019s no way Arrowmen can be encouraged to support district-level activities, such as Camporees, Klondike derbies, etc. They also ignore the fact that the lodge\u2019s unit election team, skeletal as it is, invariably refuses to visit many of our Troops because they\u2019re \u201ctoo far away\u201d to serve (funny how this argument works in one direction but is ignored in the other!). The lodge also claims that \u201cyouth leadership would be depleted\u201d if there were chapters, when, by personal experience, I know that exactly the opposite is what will happen. Yet, they bellyache when new Arrowmen complete the Ordeal, get their sashes and flaps, and then participate no further. Is there anything that can be done to change this Neanderthal-like thinking? Or are we stuck with this iconoclastic, ineffective, self-defeating situation forever? (Name withheld by request)<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Yup, you\u2019re stuck! Unless these supposedly well-meaning people start thinking outside the little box they\u2019ve crammed their brains into, nothing\u2019s going to change. And there\u2019s really no \u201cappeal process\u201d available to you, either. The \u201csupreme chief\u201d of the lodge is your Council\u2019s Scout Executive (not the Lodge Chief or the Lodge Advisor), so if you\u2019ve made your \u201cpitch\u201d to him and nothing\u2019s changed, nothing will<\/em> change until he moves on and you get a Scout Executive with a broader vision and more ecumenical way of thinking! Bad situations, especially in volunteer organizations like Scouting, can\u2019t be fixed from the outside, or even from the inside\u2014they can only be fixed from the top. So, short of getting yourself appointed Lodge Advisor, you\u2019re outa luck. Sorry!<\/span><\/p>\n

Hi Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m a new Cubmaster, and I\u2019m trying to \u201cupgrade\u201d our Pack\u2019s uniforming. For years, our Pack\u2019s leaders have been telling parents that, \u201cIf you can\u2019t afford the full uniform, the shirt will do,\u201d and so we\u2019ve become about the most rag-tag outfit you\u2019ve ever seen! Folks won\u2019t buy the pants because \u201cthey\u2019re too expensive\u201d and because \u201cthey\u2019re only worn at Den and Pack meetings, so they\u2019re a waste of money.\u201d Any thoughts on what we can do to change this and get it the way it ought to be? (K.V., So. Northfield, NJ)<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Y\u2019know, I\u2019ve never understood the mentality behind \u201c$30.45 is too much for a pair of Navy blue pants that can be worn at Den and Pack meetings, school, church, visiting the grandparents, and so on\u2026\u201d Especially when \u201cbaggies\u201d and such can cost twice that and still look like trash! But, Hey, that\u2019s me! So, what to do\u2026 One Pack I know picks four or five Cubs\u2019 names at random (from the proverbial \u201chat\u201d) at Pack meetings every month and, if the Cub whose name is picked is in full uniform, he gets a prize (prizes are inexpensive \u201ctrinkets\u201d purchased for just this purpose at party stores\u2014\u201cSpongeBobSquarePants\u201d keychains, mini-flashlights, and so on). It took \u2018em three months, and the whole Pack started showing up in full uniform! But, for argument\u2019s sake, let\u2019s say that money really is a problem. In that case, go sell Trails End popcorn! It helps your Council and District, and when each Cub family sells about $100 worth of the stuff, there\u2019s enough money coming back to the Pack to buy every Cub a pair of Cub pants! Mission accomplished!<\/span><\/p>\n

Dear Andy,<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

In your November column, you answered a question about the wearing of Eagle palms by saying, “You’ll see some folks wearing palms pinned to their Eagle \u2018square knot,\u2019 but this is\u2014strictly speaking\u2014not supposed to be done.” While I don’t have a copy of my Insignia Guide with me, you CAN wear the palms on the knots. Wasn’t always so, but now you\u2019re allowed to. I’ve also seen Scouts wear them on their Eagle badges, but I\u2019m uncertain if that’s OK. (Michael Brown)<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Yup, my own further research (BSA Insignia Guide–2003-0505) says it’s OK to wear the palms on the Eagle knot, and so I stand corrected! But, No, they\u2019re definitely NOT worn on the oval Eagle badge. Thanks for your sharp eyes!<\/span><\/p>\n


\n<\/span><\/p>\n

Happy Scouting!!<\/span><\/p>\n

Andy<\/span><\/h3>\n

Got a question? Send it to me at<\/span>AskAndyBSA@yahoo.com<\/span><\/a><\/span><\/span>-be sure to let me know your Scouting position, town, state, and council!<\/span><\/p>\n

(December 2004 \u2013 Copyright \u00a9 2004 Andy McCommish)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Dear Andy, In my travels as a Friends of Scouting contribution \u201cencourager,\u201d I\u2019ve run into several men who were Scouts maybe fifty or so years ago, and a couple of them referred to themselves as a \u201cDouble-Eagle.\u201d I\u2019ve never heard of a \u201cDouble Eagle\u201d\u2014Do you have any idea what this means? (J.K., Patriots\u2019 Path Council, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-179","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-12"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/179","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=179"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/179\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":180,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/179\/revisions\/180"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=179"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=179"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=179"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}