{"id":2470,"date":"2019-06-18T15:38:36","date_gmt":"2019-06-18T19:38:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/?p=2470"},"modified":"2019-06-18T15:38:36","modified_gmt":"2019-06-18T19:38:36","slug":"issue-604-june-18-2019","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/2019\/06\/issue-604-june-18-2019\/","title":{"rendered":"Issue 604 \u2013 June 18, 2019"},"content":{"rendered":"

Hi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019m our troop\u2019s Committee Chair and the father of a Scout in the troop. I just found out that, while on a troop campout, a 15 year-old Life Scout in my troop vaping with\u2014of all Scouts!\u2014my own 17 year-old Life Scout son! This report came from multiple Scouts in the troop as well as several adult leaders who\u2019d been at the campout.<\/strong><\/p>\n

My dilemma is that, if I punish these two Scouts for their infraction, my son will age out before making Eagle if I punish them in any way. I see no course of action helpful to these two, since any type of troop-level punishment would likely result in their trying to transfer to another troop, where they can secretly continue the same substance abuse habits. I wish I could overlook this, but it simply flies in the face of everything Scouting stands for, to say nothing of the GTSS! I can\u2019t let this go without punishment; even though there will likely be at least one set of parents who might take issue. Besides, our younger Scouts can\u2019t be allowed to see nothing happen over this.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019m really looking for advice on how to deal with these two. I\u2019ve already met with the other troop leaders\u2014the ones who spotted these Scouts vaping\u2014and we agree that some kind of punishment is due; but what? I\u2019d appreciate any advice you can give me. (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Good News: This isn’t going to be “the end of the world” for either of these Scouts…or for you!<\/p>\n

The key here and always is: THERE\u2019S NO “PUNISHMENT” IN SCOUTING. EVER!<\/strong><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, these two Scouts messed up. But there’s no “punishment” for vaping (or anything else, ever, for that matter). However, there are definitely consequences<\/em> for inappropriate behavior such as you’ve encountered. For these two Scouts, there\u2019s no question that there needs to be a consequence, and it needs to be meaningful<\/em>.<\/p>\n

If I were in your shoes, I\u2019d propose this: These two Scouts will immediately and as a buddy-team conduct a thorough investigation into the dangers of vaping and, in fact, smoking anything that puts dangerous substances in the lungs. They will review their findings with you. You may or may not require more in-depth investigation than what they first show you. Following your acceptance of their investigation, they will prepare a presentation on their findings. They can use charts, Power Point, or anything else, including one or more adults who are either at health risk (COPD, etc.) or are unable to break the smoking habit (or both!). They will again present this to you for your approval. Finally, they will present before the entire troop what they’ve learned about the dangers of smoking, including vaping, stressing the lifetime negative effects of this. They will also provide suggestions on how their fellow Scouts\u2014in or out of Scouting\u2014can avoid or stop situations where a friend offers them a vaping device, ranging from a simple “No thanks, I don’t do that”<\/em> to “You’re putting me in a situation where I’m duty-bound to report you unless you PUT THAT AWAY RIGHT NOW.”<\/em><\/p>\n

When you present this to these Scouts, insist that they agree on a time-line, such as one week to have a first draft completed (yes, you want this to be important and you want to keep the pressure on them).<\/p>\n

Before you meet with these Scouts, bring your troop’s Scoutmaster up to speed on what’s happened and what you’re going to do, and ask that he or she be a part of your meeting\u2014two-on-two (no parents)\u2014and make it in a private, \u201cneutral\u201d location (e.g., the Scoutmaster\u2019s home, a room at your local church or school, etc.)<\/p>\n

We had a troop meeting last night. I took both Scouts aside and, with our Chartered Organization Representative (\u201cCR\u201d) at my side (our Scoutmaster needed to provide oversight at the troop meeting in the larger of the two rooms we use), delivered the message you prescribed. The first thing we saw was how relieved both Scouts were. They fully understood the consequence and didn\u2019t question it; in fact, they both instantly and totally agreed to do this. I also told them that they would not be \u201ccalled out\u201d in public because we\u2019re not in the business of \u201cshaming\u201d anyone here. They sincerely appreciated this approach (thanks to you).<\/strong><\/p>\n

The 15 year-old will stop over to my house this coming weekend to\u2014with my son\u2014begin preparing the presentation. Both young men have already arranged for presentation time at a soon-to-be-held troop meeting with our Senior Patrol Leader.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve not yet talked to the 15 year-old’s parents, but I expect to soon. Do you have any guidance on this? I know the parents have some pretty serious marital issues, so I want to keep that in mind when I speak with them. I don’t want to cause their son any more stress in his home life than he likely already has to deal with (his parents verbally argue intensely troop events, and their son has shared stories of abuse at home on a regular basis).<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cClearing” this with the Scout first, how about simply inviting the parents to see the presentation these two will be making? And then just leave it at that.<\/p>\n

Thanks, Andy; that sounds great! (I don’t know how you think of this stuff!)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Usually because I’ve “been there” in one way or another!<\/p>\n

The parent meeting went great! Then, on the night of the dual-Scout presentation, the mom did show up. Both young men did a great job. They really did their research, and they obviously had some knowledge to start with. They even talked about silicosis, which results from inhaling sand particles contained in vaporizers. As someone in the medical field, I thought they did a great job. They used “reasonable degree of scientific certainty” very well when they conducted their research, and used awesome presentation skills. Thank you so much, Andy!<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well, it\u2019s not quite over yet\u2026 I\u2019m concerned about the one Scout\u2019s stories of at-home abuse. In the face of such stories, I believe you have an obligation to (gently) determine if this is abuse of this minor or any brothers or sisters he may have, or is this abuse between the two parents that this young man witnesses. If it\u2019s the former, I\u2019m thinking you may have an obligation to report this to law enforcement and let them pursue it or not as they see fit. If it\u2019s the latter, then it\u2019s not impossible that this young man and any siblings can get \u201ccaught in the middle\u201d of a potentially dangerous situation, so I believe the same action is called for. Please don\u2019t linger on this issue\u2014it\u2019s simply too important to ignore. Without hesitation, have a conversation with your council\u2019s Scout Executive. No, this isn\u2019t \u201ctattling.\u201d In fact, your SE may want to reach out to the council\u2019s attorney for further guidance. This is okay\u2026 \u201cGrowing,\u201d and sometimes \u201csaving\u201d youth is our ultimate mission.
\n==========
\nHi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n

That Q&A on ILST\/NYLT in one of your recent columns triggered a memory for me that wasn\u2019t exactly the best kind of Scouting I\u2019ve encountered. As a Scoutmaster for a fair length of time (this story goes back a decade or so), I used the then-popular Junior Leader Training with my troop\u2019s elected leaders. I was a pretty decent troop-level \u201ccourse director\u201d because after completing Wood Badge (in Germany, of all places!), I was my home council\u2019s JLT Scoutmaster, which was a true \u201cScouting as it should be\u201d experience.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Then, a few years ago, a Scout who was my legal ward at the time was invited to our council\u2019s NYLT course. He was Hispanic and coped daily (if not minute-by-minute) with ADHD, but the NYLT youth and adult staffs completely accepted him! When I picked him up at the end of the week, the course director suggested to me that since he’d done so well I should try to get him into the NAYLE program.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I tried to do this for the following summer, but\u2014yeah, this really happened!\u2014I was told that NAYLE was a \u201cPhilmont-only\u201d course and (no joke here!) only for Mormons. Luckily, there was an experimental regional NAYLE course being put on in northern California, so I was able to sign him up. But, when I delivered him to the camp, the then-Council Commissioner ordered me out of the camp immediately, for reasons that have yet to be explained (the sponsoring council\u2019s Scout Executive did apologize for how the CC had treated me). Weirdly, my boy (who was a Lone Scout at the time) couldn\u2019t complete his “ticket” because he was told that one of the make-or-break items was to become expected to become a “Lone Venturer”\u2014which didn\u2019t and doesn\u2019t exist, and no one would strike this mandate from his ticket\u2019s set of goals!<\/strong><\/p>\n

Showing great fortitude despite this impasse, my boy he put his training to work by staffing Cub Scout day camps, and staffed an international camporee-style event where he also put his Spanish fluency to work.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Fast forward a decade or two\u2026 My \u201cboy\u201d is an adult now and intends to volunteer as a Den Leader for a pack in which the twins his wife presented him will be joining shortly!<\/strong><\/p>\n

Just thought you and your readers might enjoy a tale of ultimate success over stick-in-the-mud adversity. (Dean Whinery)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Thanks! Mike LoVecchio\u2019s words\u2014\u201cWe Scouting adults need to remind ourselves always that we\u2019re not \u2018gatekeepers,\u2019 we\u2019re gate OPENERS!\u201d<\/strong><\/em>\u2014echo through your story of youthful bravery and steadfast focus.<\/p>\n

Happy Scouting!<\/strong><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Andy<\/strong><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you\u2019d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that\u2019s what we\u2019ll do.)<\/strong><\/p>\n

[No. 604 \u2013 6\/18\/2019 \u2013 Copyright \u00a9 Andy McCommish 2019]<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Hi Andy, I\u2019m our troop\u2019s Committee Chair and the father of a Scout in the troop. I just found out that, while on a troop campout, a 15 year-old Life Scout in my troop vaping with\u2014of all Scouts!\u2014my own 17 year-old Life Scout son! This report came from multiple Scouts in the troop as well […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2470","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-news"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2470","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2470"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2470\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2473,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2470\/revisions\/2473"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2470"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2470"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2470"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}