{"id":2573,"date":"2020-02-25T09:50:49","date_gmt":"2020-02-25T14:50:49","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/?p=2573"},"modified":"2020-02-25T09:50:51","modified_gmt":"2020-02-25T14:50:51","slug":"issue-630-february-25-2020","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/2020\/02\/issue-630-february-25-2020\/","title":{"rendered":"Issue 630 \u2013 February 25, 2020"},"content":{"rendered":"

________________________________________
\nHi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019m the Chartered Organization Representative for a Scouts BSA troop. Unlike the prior person in this slot, who was an \u201cin title only\u201d sort of guy, I\u2019ve been pretty involved with the committee chair and Scoutmaster. Currently, the three of us are updating the troop\u2019s \u201cdiscipline policy\u201d documents.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Up to now, when a boy joins the troop we\u2019d give his parents a packet with several sections: general rules and guidelines for meetings and campouts; the troop disciplinary policy and the committee actions pertaining to that policy; Scout responsibilities; and a few other documents like contact lists, troop stats, and a \u201cwelcome\u201d letter. The packet also included a \u201csignature\u201d page for the parents, stating that they and their son would adhere to the troop\u2019s discipline policies.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Between the committee chair, Scoutmaster, and me, we decided to drop that signature page. But when we showed the new packet\u2014with the parent \u201csignature\u201d page now gone\u2014to the troop committee, their resistance to the omission of that page was unanimous and immediate. They wanted it in there!<\/strong><\/p>\n

We explained to them that we already have the Scout Oath and Law, and there\u2019s no BSA requirement anywhere that talks about any sort of \u201cparent signature\u201d page. In response, they threw back at us that the BSA has codes of conduct for events like Jamborees, and that\u2019s why we need to have that signature page. We reemphasized that nowhere in any BSA material is there a required signature page. But the committee continued to argue that the signature page is important because parents need to know the exact steps of disciplinary action the committee will be taking for misconduct and transgressions by their sons.<\/strong><\/p>\n

While the three of us really want this signature page gone, we don\u2019t want to alienate the troop committee either. What do we do in a situation like this? Thanks in advance for your help. (CR, CC, and SM)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #29: Two things you never want to see being made: Sausages and unit bylaws. (Thank you, Mark Twain)<\/em><\/p>\n

The BSA already has all the “rules and regulations” needed to successfully operate a Boy Scout troop. Just follow the TROOP LEADER GUIDEBOOK. If you do this, you\u2019ll find that in its nearly four hundred pages there\u2019s not one single mention of any parent or youth \u201csigning\u201d anything other than the basic membership application. Moreover, the subject of \u201cdiscipline\u201d occupies less than one-quarter of one page out of the four hundred, and that should tell you how important a topic that is.<\/p>\n

When a Scout troop, or any youth-serving organization for that matter, begins its \u201cwelcome\u201d to youth and their parents with \u201crules\u201d on \u201cdiscipline,\u201d I can tell you without hesitation: They\u2019re in the wrong business.<\/p>\n

To be perfectly clear: If your troop\u2019s committee members are more invested in \u201cdiscipline\u201d than they are in supporting the activities the Scouts want to do, fire every last one of them. Immediately. And as for that \u201cintroductory\u201d packet, throw the whole thing into the nearest dumpster and don\u2019t look back.<\/p>\n

Scouting is the one place\u2014probably the only place\u2014in a boy’s or girl\u2019s life that doesn’t have “don’t do this” and “don’t do that” rules! Everything in Scouting is about what to do\u2014this is absolutely deliberate and critically important. The Scout Law, for instance is all about what a Scout is and does; there’s not one blessed word about “if you don’t (fill in the blank) then the \u2018punishment\u2019 will be (fill in the blank).”<\/p>\n

“Disciplinary action\u201d is the antithesis of what Scouting’s all about. Anyone who hasn\u2019t figured that out should be taken out back and tossed in the nearest dumpster.<\/p>\n

Thank you so much, Andy! That’s exactly what we thought; thank you for putting it in writing for us.<\/strong>
\n==========
\nHello Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n

My Eagle Scout son is currently serving as Junior Assistant Scoutmaster for his troop. He\u2019ll be turning 18 in a couple of months and then he\u2019ll be off to college in late August. He\u2019s going to be sticking around and continuing to help the troop while he finishes out his senior year and before he goes to college in the fall, so we\u2019ve been reading about the Unit College Scouter Reserve position and how it can be useful for Scouts who will be aging out and going away to college but still want to be registered with their troop.<\/strong><\/p>\n

For this summer, since he\u2019ll be 18 by then, camping trips and summer camp will be a little different for him. If he signs on as a full-blown Assistant Scoutmaster before he heads off to college, he\u2019ll be hanging out with the troop\u2019s \u201cold goats\u201d instead of his buddies who haven\u2019t hit their 18th birthdays yet. But we\u2019re wondering if he can just sign up as a Unit College Scouter Reserve as soon as he\u2019s 18 instead of ASM until August. Besides, if he goes the ASM route, he\u2019ll need to take special training for this, which seems a bit overboard for a situation that\u2019ll last only a couple of months at the most.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Also, we\u2019ve not been able to find a badge for the UCSR position. Is there a badge for this position? Short of him registering as an ASM and getting trained, I\u2019m not sure that Scouting has any other options for him. Any ideas on this, Andy? Thanks! (Roger Burcroff, Michigan Crossroads Council)<\/strong><\/p>\n

You\u2019re right \u2013 Once your son turns 18, he’s no longer a youth member; he’s considered an adult and, to continue in Scouting, he\u2019ll need to register as such. You\u2019re also correct that he has a couple of options including Assistant Scoutmaster as well as the Scouter Reserve position you mentioned (there are actually two such registration options; one is at the troop level and the other’s at the district level\u2014check with your council’s registrar on which would be the better option).<\/p>\n

Once he’s an adult, his opportunity to camp with youth members ends. He now camps (and shares campsites and tents) with his troop’s other adults. Since, at 18, he’s likely the “probie” or \u201cnewbie,\u201d it’s better if another 18 year-old friend of his (former Scout or not!) signs on as well, so they each have a same-aged “buddy” (makes for more fun this way, too!).<\/p>\n

There’s another option if an 18 year-old still wants to go hiking and camping with his buddies and not with a troop’s “geezers”\u2026He and his buddies can join a Venturing crew. The “age-out” birthday for Venturers is 21! And even better, Venturing is co-ed!
\n==========
\nHi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n

Pretty soon, it\u2019s going to be time for summer camp sign-ups. We\u2019re hoping you can help us head off a problem from last year that\u2019s likely to get repeated. It\u2019s one we just don\u2019t know how to handle.<\/strong><\/p>\n

We have a Scout in our troop, let\u2019s call him \u201cDewey,\u201d who shows up at troop meetings every now and then but with no consistency, and he now 15 and is still a Tenderfoot. When we\u2019ve asked his mother about why he\u2019s not showing up, she just says he\u2019s \u201cbusy with lots of things\u201d but never says what they are. Now, Dewey\u2019s mother wants him to go to camp again. We think it\u2019s because she just wants him out of the house for a week or so in the summer, but that\u2019s another story.<\/strong><\/p>\n

At camp last year, Dewey refused to go to vespers\u2014something the whole camp does every Sunday evening\u2014because, as he told us, \u201cI\u2019m an agnostic, so you can\u2019t make me go to something I don\u2019t believe in.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

At this camp, \u201cvespers\u201d is hardly heavy-duty religion. Mostly, it\u2019s a quiet time of contemplation for the good things live gives us, along with a few quiet, gentle camp songs. It lasts about a half-hour, and\u2014quite honestly\u2014is a really nice way to just settle down a bit after the evening meal.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Anyway, since Dewey refused to go, we were forced to have two adults stay in the troop campsite with him, where he did nothing but read a couple of comic books till the rest of the troop returned from the dining hall.<\/strong><\/p>\n

He also ignores his patrol\u2019s \u201cduty roster.\u201d For instance, when it\u2019s time for tent clean-up each morning, and it\u2019s his turn to sweep off the tent platform or something else around the patrol site, he disappears to the latrine\u2014\u201cI have a tummy ache,\u201d he\u2019ll claim, so some other Scout gets stuck doing Dewey\u2019s job. We\u2019ve even assigned Dewey a \u201cbuddy,\u201d but he always goes straight to the rifle range even when he\u2019s supposed to be with his buddy.<\/strong><\/p>\n

We don\u2019t want to refuse any boy the opportunity to go to camp, but considering how Dewey acts, it just seems unfair to the other Scouts and to the adults as well. Do you have any ideas on how we can handle this? (Puzzled Scoutmaster and ASMs in Oklahoma)<\/strong><\/p>\n

I understand your problem here, and I agree that it puts a strain on everyone to have a young man like Dewey in your midst. As I re-read your letter, it occurred to me that there\u2019s something missing. Maybe you\u2019ve done it but didn\u2019t mention it\u2026 Where\u2019s the eyeball-to-eyeball sit-down conversation between you and your troop\u2019s committee chair, and Dewey\u2019s mother?<\/p>\n

I agree that no boy should be arbitrarily refused an opportunity to go to camp, but that\u2019s not the situation here. This particular young man gives the appearance of being incorrigible, and that\u2019s definitely grounds for refusing to have him join the troop at summer camp, because\u2014yes, you\u2019re absolutely correct\u2014his actions are indeed unfair to youth and adults both.<\/p>\n

So sit down with his mother and tell her that her son can\u2019t come to camp with the troop this summer, and include all of the reasons why this decision has been made, just like you\u2019ve told me. That should be the end of it, but let\u2019s say, for instance, that she pushes the issue by assuring you her son won\u2019t repeat his former ways. Your response can be that you\u2019ll agree to this, but only<\/em> if she agrees to be prepared to personally drive to the camp and retrieve him immediately, should there be a relapse of any kind. If she\u2019s not willing to agree to this, then your answer remains no.<\/p>\n

The bottom line is that you all aren\u2019t professional child therapists and, as lay volunteers, you can\u2019t be expected to deal with deep-seated problems\u2014which Dewey has certainly displayed\u2014at the cost of other youth. Yes, this boy needs help, but you can\u2019t sacrifice the other Scouts in the troop for this. It feels harsh, but it\u2019s reality.<\/p>\n

And, since you mentioned it, this \u201cagnostic\u201d stuff is obviously baloney\u2014just another way to get what he wants, at your expense. The counter to that sort of stuff is simple: You can\u2019t run around repeating the Scout Oath and Law and at the same time call yourself an agnostic. You go with your troop or you call your mother right this minute and tell her to come and take you home; there are no other options.<\/p>\n

Happy Scouting!<\/strong><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Andy<\/strong><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you\u2019d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that\u2019s what we\u2019ll do.)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Although these columns are copyrighted, any reader has my permission to quote or reproduce any columns or column parts so long as you attribute authorship: \u201cAsk Andy\u201d by Andy McCommish.<\/strong><\/p>\n

[No. 630 \u2013 2\/25\/2020 \u2013 Copyright \u00a9 Andy McCommish 2020]<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

________________________________________ Hi Andy, I\u2019m the Chartered Organization Representative for a Scouts BSA troop. Unlike the prior person in this slot, who was an \u201cin title only\u201d sort of guy, I\u2019ve been pretty involved with the committee chair and Scoutmaster. Currently, the three of us are updating the troop\u2019s \u201cdiscipline policy\u201d documents. Up to now, when […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2573","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-news"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2573","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2573"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2573\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2577,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2573\/revisions\/2577"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2573"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2573"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2573"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}