Editor’s note from the NetCommish: Ask Andy was red hot and ready to publish a week ago. Andy wrote a great column and had it ready, but, your old editor, The NetCommish, was dealing with some real life issues that made it impossible to publish for awhile. My apologies for the delay in releasing this issue of Ask Andy. And now for the good stuff from Andy.<\/p>\n
Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n Growing up in Scouts as a kid, one of the things I always looked forward to at the end of our troop meetings was dodge ball. Now, my Committee Chair\u2019s told me that the Boy Scouts doesn\u2019t allow Scouts to play dodge ball at any Scout function. Is this true? (Jim Skinner, SM) <\/strong><\/p>\n No dodge ball? Since when? Ask your CC to show you that in writing, in any BSA publication. Otherwise, Forgetaboutit! Dodge ball’s as natural as marbles, capture-the-flag, or any other non-pugilistic game! Check out the Guide to Safe Scouting<\/em> for what’s to be avoided.<\/p>\n But… Just to throw in my own “two cents”… As a Scoutmaster and also as an OA Chapter Advisor, I used to use dodge ball, basketball, etc., in front of meetings<\/em>, to get the Scouts there on time so we could always start our meetings on time! Go a 7:30 start-time? OK, dodge ball (or B-ball, or whatever) from 7:10 till 7:29 and then the balls go away. This way, the Scouts showed up to play, and we started our meetings at 7:30 sharp. In the troop, we ended on time so that the PLC can have its 15-minute post-troop meeting gathering without feeling like they’re missing out while the other Scouts get to play. Think it over…<\/p>\n Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n I know you\u2019ve covered Scoutmaster Conferences (aka \u201cSMCs\u201d) in other columns and I hate to rehash, but we\u2019re having a bit of a disagreement in our troop about content and length.<\/strong><\/p>\n Historically, this troop has used SMCs to re-test each advancing Scout for mastery of all of the skills learned for not only the rank sought but for every prior rank as well\u2014it\u2019s literally a checklist of skills to be demonstrated for each rank. By the time our Scouts reach First Class, and even more so for Start and beyond, SMCs are taking at least two meetings if the Scout doesn\u2019t get nervous or flustered and forget the material\u2014more if he forgets something or gets something wrong. <\/strong><\/p>\n This procedure is causing Scouts to miss out on troop meeting programs, games, and so on during their SMCs and it also pulls the Scoutmaster away from the troop meetings week after week. Plus, since usually a group of Scouts will all learn the same skills and get them signed off on the same campouts, there are whole bunches of Scouts who need SMCs at the same time, so that weeks go by before a Scout can get his SMC underway.<\/strong><\/p>\n The Scoutmaster and long-time troop committee members say that if this re-testing isn\u2019t done the quality of the unit will go down. They also say that almost all troops re-test as part of the SMC. <\/strong><\/p>\n Can you give me some sort of indication on how a successful program maintains knowledge without re-testing? Or are they correct that most troops re-test the way we do? (Name Withheld, Sam Houston Council, TX)<\/strong><\/p>\n Thanks for finding me and for asking a really important question!<\/p>\n There are four steps to a Scout’s advancement: He (1) learns, (2) is tested, (3) is reviewed, and (4) gets recognized. He is never, ever re-reviewed, or re-tested, or is expected to re-learn. He goes through the four steps once and only once and that’s it.<\/p>\n The Scoutmaster conference has an entirely different purpose from what you’ve described; it’s explained thoroughly in the Scoutmaster Handbook<\/em> and the training courses for Scoutmasters. The Scoutmaster is expected to follow the process described in his own handbook; there’s actually very little if any room for deviation. There’s certainly no room at all for re-testing or even re-reviewing. Not so much as tying a square knot! That’s simply not the Scouting way! Period.<\/p>\n A Scoutmaster’s conference with a Scout, preparatory to the Scout’s board of review for a rank, might last perhaps 10 minutes or so, perhaps 15 or a tad more for Eagle candidates, but that’s about it. These are simple and straightforward conversations; there’s certainly no “testing” going on, for goodness sakes! That’s just not what Scoutmasters are supposed to be doing at this point in the advancement process.<\/p>\n If the Scout’s handbook has been signed, saying that, let’s say, requirement 5a for First Class has been completed (per Step 2 that I mentioned at the outset), then it’s done…forever! It’s never, ever retested. By anyone!<\/p>\n If the Scout has completed a merit badge, and his “blue card” has been signed by his Merit Badge Counselor, that’s it. No questions pertaining to requirements that are in the “quiz” or “re-test” category ever get asked! The MBC has already stated, by signature, that all is completed, and that’s it. End of story.<\/p>\n If this isn’t the approach your troop is taking with its Scouts, then\u2014old-timers or new-timers\u2014the adults are doing a huge disservice to the Scouts and they need to stop this sort of stuff immediately. Their mission is to deliver the Boy Scout program as written; it’s not to make up their own set of rules or standards on their own. “We’ve always done it that way” is not an acceptable rationale for continuing to do what is patently the wrong way to go.<\/p>\n On your question of “how do we keep up skills without re-testing?” in the first place, that’s not your job! The BSA has not obliged you to make certain that every Scout retains 100% (or even an approximation of this) of all the skills and knowledge he’s acquired as a Scout. Heck, there’s not a public or private educational system or operation or institution on this entire planet that even tries to do this! That said, there are definitely things your troop can be doing to make having learned this stuff fun, and that’s by providing ways to use the skills! What do you think Camporees, Klondike Derbies, and so on are for? What do you think inter-patrol games and competitions are for? That\u2019s<\/em> how you continue to reinforce these learnings. Not “at gun-point” for gosh sakes!<\/p>\n I truly hope you\u2019re all able to straighten yourselves out and start delivering the Boy Scout program the way it’s supposed to be delivered.<\/p>\n Thanks, Andy. Those are the sort of things that I was trying to tell them, but they kept telling me I was being unrealistic and that all troops were like this. That\u2019s why I did a \u201csanity check\u201d by writing to you.<\/strong><\/p>\n What these folks aren’t getting is that it doesn’t matter what “other troops” are or aren’t doing. What matters is whether or not this troop is following stated BSA procedures. If they’re not, then they need to make an instant course correction and get themselves aimed at True North. They’ve wandered way, way off course.<\/p>\n I’m not the “sanity check”\u2014The check to make is in the BSA literature, including the Scoutmaster Handbook<\/em> and Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures<\/em>. This isn’t “they’re wrong according to Andy;” they’re wrong according to the BSA! What a pity that they haven\u2019t figured this out!<\/p>\n Hi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n My son is ADHD, is bi-polar, has other emotional issues and has some diagnosed phobias. The first troop he joined was very slow to advance him\u2014after a year he didn’t even have his Tenderfoot rank. He was very frustrated, as was I, so we transferred to another troop. His current troop is very organized and we\u2019re proud to be involved; however, there\u2019s an issue with which I need help. All of the other Scouts went through Cub Scouts together and moved on to Boy Scouts together. My son was never involved in Cubs. Because of this, he feels like an outsider, and since he\u2019s been a Boy Scout for almost two years and he\u2019s still only a Tenderfoot (compared to the other Scouts of similar age, who are all at least First Class), how do I help him continue to grow? Is there anything specific about Scouts that would help his Scoutmaster and the other Scouts understand him better? Are there any BSA policies regarding mentally disabled Scouts that I should be aware of, in order to help him advance at a quicker rate? Thanks for any help you can offer. I want him to grow and be a successful Scout. I want him to continue to learn, grow, and become a man of honor. (Therese Righter)<\/strong><\/p>\n Congratulations to your son for sticking with it!<\/em> And to you, too, Super-Mom! Thanks for writing. Let’s see if I can help out a little…<\/p>\n First off, missing Cub Scouts is, in the long run, no particular big deal. Sorry it didn’t happen, but let’s look forward, not back. It\u2019s tough to be \u201can outsider,\u201d but remember that he\u2019s been in his new troop only a few months. He needs to give it a little time. I suspect strongly that a few good overnight camp-outs will go a long way to helping some bonding happen. Of course, he has to reach out, too! Life isn\u2019t a one-way street.<\/p>\n Second, in Boy Scouting, advancement is “at will,” meaning it’s up to each individual Scout how fast and how far he, personally, wants to travel along the advancement trail. The troop\u2019s program will provide opportunities for him, but no one will be putting him on their shoulders. This is why some Scouts make it all the way to Eagle and most don’t (nationwide, only about two to four out of every hundred Boy Scouts gets to Eagle). But again, no big deal here! If your son decides to be a Second Class Scout, or a Star or Life Scout, that’s just fine. He can even decide to stay right where he is at Tenderfoot! This is his decision, and his alone. He needs to read the first couple of chapters in his handbook (yes, it\u2019s OK for mom and him to read it together!).<\/p>\n Third, the BSA does have alternate advancement paths for Scouts who are mentally or physically challenged, and this is described in your son’s handbook (refer to the footnotes on pages 65 and 113) plus the additional BSA literature mentioned there. All that’s needed, to begin with, is a written statement from a qualified medical practitioner stating the problem(s) and the limitation(s). Once this document is in hand, the alternative process can begin, and there is significant BSA literature to guide you all on the troop committee with this.<\/p>\n Review what we’ve spoken of here with your son’s Scoutmaster. Review the BSA writings on this subject. If you have further questions, let\u2019s by all means hear from you again!<\/p>\n Hi Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n My question\u2019s about the formation of patrols. I know that Scouts have a better time and feel more comfortable when all the boys in a patrol are close in age and experience level, but wouldn’t the Scouts get a more well-rounded experience and learn more if they were in a more diverse patrol\u2014for example, one with, let\u2019s say, a Life Scout, a Star Scout, two First Class Scouts, two Second Class Scouts, and two new Scouts? I\u2019d think younger Scouts would learn more from that type of patrol environment because they\u2019d be interacting with Scouts who have different levels of experience and maturity. This would also allow older Scouts the opportunity to learn to deal with and work with and more closely mentor younger Scouts, who are also at different maturity levels. I’m interested in your thoughts on this. (Matt Riti, CC, Central New Jersey Council) <\/strong><\/p>\n No, they wouldn’t. Boys form natural groups by age\/grade. Young men who are age 15 or 16 don’t hang out with 11 or 12 year olds. The kind of patrol you’re describing forces them to do something that’s totally unnatural to their maturation, instincts, tendencies, and liking.<\/p>\n A new Scout patrol of former Webelos den members is the most natural of all patrols. They’ve likely already shared many experiences, they’re in the same school grade and may even be in the same classroom, they’ll ultimately all be in the same high school graduating class together, they know one another’s strengths, weaknesses and personalities… why in the world would you want to bust ’em up and make every one of them low man on the totem pole?<\/p>\n They\u2019re certainly capable of electing their own Patrol Leader, and\u2014in a correctly run troop\u2014that PL will have the “I’ve got your back” guidance of a Troop Guide (who is not, by the way, the “temporary PL until the new boys catch on”) and often an ASM as well.<\/p>\n Want proof? Just tell any group of Scouts that they\u2019re to form into groups of between four and six Scouts each, and then you step back and observe them… They’ll instantly and absolutely group by relative age\/grade.<\/p>\n Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n I appreciated your comments about doing merit badge work during troop meetings\u2014I think you\u2019re absolutely correct that you can give Scouts a taste of merit badges without turning troop meetings into merit badge classes.<\/strong><\/p>\n My experience with trying to teach Cit-Community and Cit-Nation in groups before troop meetings was mixed. Too often it felt like I was pulling out my back teeth with tweezers and it took forever to get anything done because half the Scouts would fail to show up and I wound up going over the same subject matter session after session after session. That said, the Scouts who worked at it got through two Eagle-required merit badges over a four- to five-month period. This year, I\u2019ve focused instead on meeting with merit badge groups for about two hours each on a couple of Saturday afternoons, and find that we can crank out the requirements for each of the Citizenship badges a lot more quickly and it’s less of an ordeal.<\/strong><\/p>\n Of course, the troop calendar has to include regular field trips and so on, to help Scouts who are interested meet the requirements of at least Eagle-required merit badges like the citizenships\u2014I\u2019ve found that the best and easiest way to get through the boring stuff is to talk about it on a field trip. There are a lot of other field trips that can spruce up the troop program and get the Scouts well on their way to finishing a merit badge, like a waste treatment plant visit, for Public Health, or to the local art museum, for Art and\/or Sculpture.<\/p>\n One thing I miss from Cub Scouts is working on handicrafts. I think it would be fun and different if Scouts did things like basketry, Let’s first understand that I’m an Eagle Scout from an entirely different era and culture… When I was a Scout, not even our Scoutmaster showed any interest in our advancement except to congratulate us when we’d completed a requirement. Of course, he’d been a wise enough Scoutmaster to have provided the opportunity for learning-and-doing while on camping trips with our patrols. But it was always up to us Scouts to grab the flag and run with it, so to speak. Classes? Never. Hand-holding? You must be joking! Special sessions to help Scout “catch up”? Not a chance. Troop Dads who were also Merit Badge Counselors? Not a one.<\/p>\n So, how did we ever advance, if we had to go “out there” and contact every single Merit Badge Counselor, for every single merit badge, by ourselves? Well, we just did it. We did it because we knew that if we didn’t, there’d be nobody there to coddle, cajole, or coach us through anything. Like it says in the handbook, advancement’s up to the gumption of each individual Scout\u2014No one\u2019s gonna hold yer little hand or pat yer little head. As Yoda said, \u201cDo. Or do not.\u201d The choice was ours, and we made it.<\/p>\n So you’re thinking, thank goodness there was no 18-years old limit when Andy was a Scout\u2026probably took him a lot longer than Scouts today, who make Eagle at 11 PM the night before their 18th birthday! Well, I was an Eagle at age 15, and my younger brother did it at age 14, and neither of us was either unusually “devoted” to Scouts, or exceptionally motivated. We just sort of went along and did what we wanted to and, Lo and Behold, there we were, with all our requirements completed. Oh yeah, nobody drove us to either troop meetings or Merit Badge Counselor sessions, either. We had legs and we had bikes; we were expected to use \u2018em.<\/p>\n So anyway, I’m not much of a believer in “make-up sessions,” or “special outings,” or any other such nonsense, because, fundamentally, I’m not a believer in the notion that “a troop’s primary responsibility is to produce Eagles.” I’m not a believer in that notion because that’s what it is: a notion.<\/p>\n Stop, already, with the classes and sessions and special field trips and all of that other stuff. If a Scout wants to earn a merit badge, he’ll go out and do it. If he doesn’t, he won’t. And spoon-feeding him ain’t the “solution,” largely because no solution is needed!<\/p>\n Well, now that we’ve established that, let\u2019s chat a bit about handicrafts… Understanding that Boy Scouts better not be subverted into “Webelos 3,” the best way I can think of to inject handicrafts into a troop’s program is to set up a challenge-and-reward situation, like…<\/p>\n …By next month, any patrol whose members are all wearing personally hand-carved neckerchief slides get to go to… (name a spot they love!)<\/p>\n …Your patrol staves (that is, the poles that hold the patrol flags…you do have patrol flags, don’t you?) are way too plain and have no “character”… Here’s some Magic Markers, twine, gimp, beads, etc., etc., and you’ve got till the end of this troop meeting to personalize them. Best looking patrol stave, as judged by all of you in a silent ballot, gets to…<\/p>\n Are you getting my drift here…? <wink><\/p>\n <\/p>\n Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n My question\u2019s about Blue & Gold and Webelos cross-over. I\u2019m a new Den Leader. I was pretty excited when our den started planning for the Blue & Gold banquet\u2014the Tigers are making decorations and planning to decorate tables and sit together at the dinner. Our Unit Commissioner recommended to our pack committee that each den make decorations and prepare a skit. But when I went to the Cubmaster to clear our plans, he told me to hold off, because the Webelos will be doing the opening ceremony and then the cross-over ceremony will take over an hour, so there won\u2019t be time for other dens to do anything. Where is the fun in that? I\u2019m wondering. Maybe we \u201cother\u201d dens need a separate program\u2014we\u2019re sure not going to want to just sit there after eating and watch a more than hour-long ceremony to see a mere five boys get \u201carrow\u201d plaques.<\/strong><\/p>\n IMHO, if the Blue & Gold isn\u2019t going to involve everyone in the pack, then cross-over should be a separate event. I know that both are important events, and I\u2019ve looked at other web sites to see how other packs have done both. Being new, I\u2019ve not yet seen how our pack does it, but all of the descriptions of it from other parents have been negative. What advice can you give me? (Ken Bohannan, Tiger DL, Ozark Trails Council, MO)<\/strong><\/p>\n The Cubmaster’s the usual master of ceremonies at pack meetings, but he doesn’t control the program itself… The program is developed through the collaboration of all<\/em> Den Leaders and the Cubmaster. It\u2019s absolutely spot-on that pack meetings should involve as many boys in the pack as possible\u2014meaning Tigers, Wolves, Bears, and Webelos\u2014and not be limited to just one den over all the others. Pack meetings are designed to be highly involving for all Cubs; not just some. To be compelled to be “the audience” for more than about 15 minutes is abusive and needs to be changed. “Well we\u2019ve always done it this way” isn\u2019t an acceptable rationale for being wrong, wrong, wrong.<\/p>\n Round up the other Den Leaders, gang up on the Cubmaster, and fix this. You have every right to do this. The committee should be supporting your efforts to include more boys and should frown on any attempts to continue something that’s wrong.<\/p>\n The BSA publishes “Program Helps” in hard copy and on line. Follow those parameters and you’ll not go wrong!<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n In the district I\u2019m associated with, Eagle candidates are reviewed by lining up as many as five candidates in front of the members of the board of review and asking these candidates questions alternating between them, for brief replies. The whole process, for five or more candidates, takes less than an hour. I first joined Scouting in 1941 and I\u2019ve held virtually every volunteer position possible, including executive board member for a dozen years. I\u2019ve always believed that all boards of review are done individually; never collectively. I\u2019ve tried to speak with the district people about this, but they\u2019re non-supportive of any change in procedure. Which is correct? (Frank B. Johnston, Cradle of Liberty Council, PA)<\/strong><\/p>\n You have it right. Boards of review are always<\/em> conducted individually\u2014one candidate at a time\u2014for all ranks and palms; not just Eagle. And it\u2019s never, ever a “quiz.” The purpose of questions is to open up a conversation, a dialogue; not to “test” or “re-test” the Scout. For Eagle, a board of review might last perhaps a half-hour, maybe a little bit longer, and occasionally perhaps 45 to 50 minutes, but to hustle five or more Scouts through a review in an hour is absolute nonsense. Whoever is doing this, and whoever is permitting this to be done should be taken out back and shot.<\/p>\n Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n I\u2019m the newest Scoutmaster of one of the oldest and largest troops in town. In the two years prior to this, I was the troop\u2019s camping chair. That\u2019s where I first started noticing a significant difference in the way our Scouts generally behaved on camp-outs and summer (resident) camp, depending on whether or not their mothers were there: Behavior seriously deteriorated when mothers were present. Moreover, in instances where the mother of just on e Scout was present, the other Scouts treated him differently\u2014not harassing, mind you, but differently…more like they cut him out of the group.<\/strong><\/p>\n Last summer, while at camp, I had the opportunity to ask other troop leaders like myself whether they had any policies about mothers at camp-outs and such and, interestingly, the majority of those with whom I spoke either had strict policies about not including mothers or had an \u201cunwritten understanding\u201d that moms would get involved in troop activities other than camping. <\/strong><\/p>\n I\u2019ve since discussed this with our troop committee and with parents and, as a result, I\u2019ve personally adopted this approach: \u201cI highly encourage dads to become certified Assistant Scoutmasters and attend camp-outs; and while I don\u2019t prohibit moms from attending camp-outs, I strongly endorse involvement in other areas, such as advancement, fund raising, administration, etc.\u201d Our committee clearly doesn\u2019t have a written directive either way, and I\u2019ve tried to be very clear about this lack of policy with whomever I discuss this topic. <\/strong><\/p>\n This unwritten strategy has worked well, even with single moms (who, I think, are sometimes are more enthusiastic about the Scouting program than their own sons). However, recently, this issue arose after I met with a single mom of a Webelos who\u2019s considering joining our troop and another mom who\u2019s very involved but hasn\u2019t camped with the troop for a while but wants to keep that option open. I\u2019m trying to be sensitive to their issues, but it\u2019s becoming a dilemma. Personally, I think there are so few activities and organizations where \u201cguys can be with other guys\u201d that the issue of just one or two \u201ctails\u201d wagging the dog is frustrating. (I\u2019m also checking into the Girl Scout policy to see if they allow dads to go camping with their daughters.)<\/strong><\/p>\n The Scouts have recently changed the vision of the troop and are moving from single-aged patrols to mixed-age patrols, to emphasize more leadership, mentoring skills, and truly become a boy-led troop. There\u2019s real excitement and momentum in the troop right now among both Scouts and parents alike, and I don\u2019t want the \u201cmom camping\u201d issue become a negative factor in this forward momentum. I\u2019ve considered letting the Scouts vote on their preference, but I\u2019m wondering if this would be a good idea. Your comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. (Mark S. Miller, SM, Sam Houston Area Council, TX)<\/strong><\/p>\n Thanks for raising these issues. They’re critically important! I\u2019ll try to hit the key main points\u2026<\/p>\n First: This is Boy Scouts. It’s not “Webelos III<\/em>” and it\u2019s not “family camping but with tan shirts<\/em>.”<\/p>\n Neither moms nor<\/em> dads should be directly involved with their sons on troop or patrol campouts\u2014or even visible! The adult leaders on camping trips, hikes, and so forth are the Scoutmaster and perhaps one or two ASMs or committee members, at the very most. If other adults are along on the trip (for instance, maybe they’re drivers and they\u2019d prefer to camp over instead of driving two out-and-backs), they\u2019re to make themselves scarce. They don\u2019t interact with the Scouts during the day, during meals, or at any other time. They camp and cook by themselves, out of sight of the troop. They might possibly be invited to the troop campfire Saturday night, but this is by no means “guaranteed.”<\/p>\n The Patrol Method: Either you’re using The Patrol Method or you’re not. If you’re not, you’re not providing a Boy Scouting program.<\/p>\n Same goes for Scout-led. You either are, or aren’t. If you’re not a Scout-led troop, you’re not delivering Boy Scouting. There’s no such thing as “a little bit pregnant.” There’s no such thing as “almost Scout-led.”<\/p>\n These things don’t have to be written down as some sort of “law.” They’re simply understood. And, frankly, if some parent doesn’t like this way of delivering Scouting, that parent is welcome to find a troop more to their liking. I just hope they’re not overlooking what their sons might happen to like–which is usually less rather than more parental involvement.<\/p>\n Don\u2019t<\/em> draw from Girl Scouts. This is an entirely different program, organized and run entirely differently from Boy Scouts. It is absolutely not<\/em> “Boy Scouts, but for girls.”<\/p>\n Mixed ages in patrols is not as effective as keeping Webelos dens together as they become patrols and move through the troop together. Remember that these boys and young men are also in the same grade and perhaps even classroom together; ultimately, they will all be in the same high school graduating class. Why would anyone want to bust ’em up?! New Scout patrols are supposed to have one Troop Guide and one Assistant Scoutmaster assigned directly to coaching the Patrol Leader they’re elected from amongst themselves (the TG and\/or ASM are NOT “temporary leaders until the Scouts learn how”). An 11 year old Patrol Leader is just as effective in attending a Patrol Leaders Council meeting and communicating his patrol members’ interests as a 17 year old Patrol Leader. If you reshuffle patrols to mix the ages, you’re destroying already-formed groups, and that’s just plain wrong<\/em>.<\/p>\n Take a few well-spent hours to re-read your Scoutmaster Handbook<\/em>. It\u2019s still the way to go.<\/p>\n Hello Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n I have a question on Cub Scout advancement related to age. I think I’ve figured it out, but want to bounce it off you.<\/strong><\/p>\n Out of 28 Cubs in our pack, we have only one Bear. Last fall, we agreed that instead of leaving this boy to hang out alone, with no den, he\u2019d participate in Webelos den meetings (although he wouldn’t be earning Webelos awards\u2014his parents would work with him to complete his Bear requirements this year). Then, next year, he’d still be with the Webelos den\u2014they\u2019d be Webelos II and he\u2019d be I. He just had his 10th<\/sup> birthday the other day, and my fear is that, a year from now when the Webelos IIs graduate, he\u2019ll have no den left, which would mean that he couldn\u2019t complete the Arrow of Light requirements as written (\u201c\u2026with your Webelos den\u201d and so on), which gets more complicated when we consider that until the current den of Wolf Cubs are Webelos I in the Fall of 2010, he\u2019d not have a Webelos den to be with to start his 6-month requirement to earn the Arrow of Light, which at that point would extend beyond his 11th<\/sup> birthday in early 2011. <\/strong><\/p>\n I suppose we could have told this family, back last fall, that we don\u2019t have any other Bear-age boys in the pack, and recommended a different pack for him, but we have this thing about not turning any boy away and also he has a younger brother already in the pack and they\u2019re a really nice family that we want to have. This boy is also academically advanced\u2014in some comparisons, well beyond some of our current Webelos!<\/strong><\/p>\n Then, we just found out that he\u2019d been promoted mid-term from 3rd<\/sup> grade to 4th<\/sup>, so that, at the end of this school year he\u2019ll be 10 years old and completed 4th<\/sup> grade, making him eligible to be a 5th<\/sup> grade Webelos II in the fall. This means that maybe he should stop doing Bear stuff right now, and go straight to earning his Webelos badge? Because it sure looks like he\u2019s going to be eligible for Webelos II by next fall and graduating to Boy Scouts just about a year from now!<\/strong><\/p>\n He’s the type of boy I can imagine having the drive to become an Eagle Scout by his 12th<\/sup> birthday and then earning all 121 merit badges in just a couple of years!<\/strong><\/p>\n So, with him now being a bona fide 4th<\/sup> grader, and based on what the BSA application says\u2026 <\/strong><\/p>\n …these mean that since he\u2019s presently 10 he can still be a Bear Cub Scout, or since he’s now in the 4th<\/sup> grade thanks to that mid-term promotion, he can also be a Webelos I Scout right now. The tenure requirement of being active in the Webelos den for 3 months since joining it is already underway, and he can complete this requirement toward the end of April! Thus, he can receive, first, his Bear Badge and Arrow Points, and<\/em> his Webelos Badge and any accompanying activity badges, at our pack\u2019s upcoming Blue & Gold dinner!<\/strong><\/p>\n This also means that he\u2019d be eligible to begin working toward the Arrow of Light requirements and activity badges as soon as school gets out in the spring and he\u2019s no longer a 4th<\/sup> grader! This clears the way for him to aim at Arrow of Light, and the intention to graduate in early 2010, right on the cusp of his 11th<\/sup> birthday.<\/strong><\/p>\n Do I have all this straight? He can be a Webelos even though he’s 9, because he\u2019s now in the fourth grade, right along with the other Webelos I boys? And will he be eligible, on his 10th<\/sup> birthday in January 2010, to be a Boy Scout, assuming all Arrow of Light achievements have been completed?<\/strong><\/p>\n Have a good day! (Sheila Brookins, WDL, Detroit Area Council, MI)<\/strong><\/p>\n Readin\u2019 all that started to make my head come to a point. The short answer is: Move a boy up, if necessary, but never move him down.<\/p>\n Thanks for your devotion. Do keep in mind that the objective of Boy Scouting is NOT to be an Eagle Scout: In fact, advancement is only one of a total of eight methods Scouting uses to help boys and young men grow into responsible, happy citizens.<\/p>\n Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n In your January 16th<\/sup> column, one of your readers had a question about their boy earning Bear without being a Wolf. In your answer, you broke the levels of Cub Scouting down to what grade they\u2019re in… This isn\u2019t always true. For instance, if a boy were in an LDS unit (LDS = Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) his place in the Scouting continuum would be defined by his age: An 8 year old would be a Wolf Cub Scout; on his 9th<\/sup> birthday he advances to Bear; on his 10th<\/sup> birthday he advances to Webelos; from 11 through 13 he\u2019s a Boy Scout; from 14 through 15 he\u2019s a Varsity Scout; and at 16 he becomes a Venturer (includes Sea Scouting). (Robert Schleich, SM, Occoneechee Council, NC)<\/strong><\/p>\n Yes, you’re absolutely correct: The rank-to-grade thing isn’t universal; LDS Scouting groups do follow an age-in-years-to-program format. That’s why we had “Blazer Patrols” for a while, in fact, if you happen to remember these. Thanks for the reminder, Brother!<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Dear<\/strong> Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n I have a question, but I\u2019ve been thinking it\u2019s just another Scouting \u201curban legend.\u201d Even worse, when I was trained as a Tiger Cub Den Leader, this was what I was told\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n When a boy is going through the Eagle Scout process, does he have to prove when and what ranks he earned in Cub Scouts? (The background to this is that in my pack, advancements that were filed with the paper advancement form are not showing up in online advancement, and I\u2019m being asked to fill it in, despite my strong belief that the paper copy we submit to council is adequate.)<\/strong><\/p>\n Right off the top, I dismiss the whole notion of keeping Cub Scout advancement records based on a rationale that they\u2019ll be needed later, when a Scout\u2019s going for Eagle, because a boy doesn\u2019t have to be a Cub Scout to be an Eagle Scout, so proving when a boy earned his Tiger Cub Badge, for example, is a pretty moot point.<\/strong><\/p>\n I\u2019ve looked at the Eagle Scout rank application. It asks if a boy was a Cub Scout and\/or a Webelos Scout. It doesn\u2019t ask for dates or any information at all about Cub Scout ranks, and it certainly requires no proof of any sort to be attached. I\u2019ve also looked at my council’s Eagle Scout process, and again there\u2019s nothing about Cub Scout ranks. I\u2019ve read the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures<\/em> guide, and I haven’t found anything there, either.<\/strong><\/p>\n So all I can really conclude is that this might be asked about during a Scoutmaster Conference or Eagle Scout Board of Review, but to what purpose? I really don’t see why a date and proof of a Cub Scout rank would be relevant. I could perhaps see a Scoutmaster asking about a Scout\u2019s general experiences, and maybe in an Eagle Scout Board of Review, asking about experiences is much different than proving he earned ranks. But would a Scout really be denied a rank because he couldn\u2019t prove he was a Cub Scout? I really don’t think so. Would an Eagle Scout candidate be meeting the requirements any better by proving he was a Tiger Cub? Again, I don’t think so.<\/strong><\/p>\n My first conclusion is that a troop committee can have some strange (and wrong) need to prove to their council that they have a Scout that “they\u2014in their infinite wisdom” have \u201cdeemed\u201d worthy of Eagle Scout by making him endure an unnecessary set of questions and proofs.<\/strong><\/p>\n My second conclusion has to do with troops submitting advancement reports to council. I\u2019m not sure what the Eagle Scout Service does to a Scout’s application to verify tenure and record of Boy Scout ranks, but why would they waste their time verifying Cub Scout ranks on an Eagle Scout application? (Name Withheld, Detroit Area Council, MI)<\/strong><\/p>\n “Urban legend” is correct. Boy Scouts don\u2019t need to provide evidence of their Cub Scout ranks. Troop leaders do not “decide” if a Scout is “worthy” of Eagle or not\u2014This is totally wrong-headed thinking. No Scout has to “prove” anything, especially in a correct board of review. All of this is done beforehand, anyway, and to subject a Scout to any sort of quiz\u2014whether it be on subject-matter, dates of advancement, or anything else\u2014is a direct violation of BSA policy.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Hey Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n Is there any rule in Boy Scouts stating that all<\/em> Scout outings must<\/em> be used for some type of rank advancement? (Mark Fury, SM, Istrouma Area Council, LA)<\/strong><\/p>\n Ya gotta be kidding! Nope, there’s not a darned thing that says that, and there never has been! Here’s what all Scout outings MUST be about: Fun, adventure, new hands-on learning-and-doing, team-building, and did I mention FUN!<\/p>\n Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/p>\n I am appalled by the hypocritical attitude of the Boy Scouts. Raping the land by clear-cut logging all over the country, and killing endangered steelhead at Camp Pico Blanco. My son will never be a Cub Scout or Boy Scout. We wholeheartedly support Trout Unlimited, the Nature Conservancy, and the Sierra Club. Your actions are completely counter to the conservation role espoused by the Scouts. Shame on you! (John Reising, Issaquah, WA)<\/strong><\/p>\n Thanks for finding me, and for writing\u2026<\/p>\n According to my brief research at http:\/\/himlyn.com\/pico.blanco\/after_the_fire.html<\/a>, a major fire, caused by a lightning strike in the Big Sur area of California on June 21, 2008 has resulted in significant damage throughout the Pico Blanco basin area, including Camp Pico Blanco, the oldest Boy Scout camp along the central coast. The camp has been salvaged, largely by volunteers, but needs major infusions of both dollars and more volunteers willing to roll up their sleeves and return this formerly beautiful and much-utilized (by many groups, not just Scouts, thanks to a BSA “open door” policy) area to a state where humans can return safely to it.<\/p>\n I encourage you to learn more from the Scouting folks more closely associate with this area: Camp Pico Blanco Recovery Fund, c\/o Monterey Bay Area Council-BSA, 55 East San Joaquin Street, Salinas, CA 93901, (831) 422-5338. Ask to speak with the Scout Executive (he’s the highest-ranking person in charge).<\/p>\n Best wishes and please let me know what you learn and\u2014more importantly \u2014what you all decide to do.<\/p>\n This URL has some pretty grisly photos\u2026<\/p>\n
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\nleatherwork, or whatever for a portion of a troop meeting once a month or so, and each patrol could have a storage box with individual craft projects. But the Scouts show little interest in that idea. Are you aware of troops that work crafts into the troop program with any success? What\u2019s the secret? (Alex Gregory)<\/strong><\/p>\n
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