{"id":832,"date":"2010-05-24T12:43:07","date_gmt":"2010-05-24T16:43:07","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/?p=832"},"modified":"2011-11-13T12:47:36","modified_gmt":"2011-11-13T17:47:36","slug":"issue-216-may-24-2010","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/2010\/05\/issue-216-may-24-2010\/","title":{"rendered":"Issue 216 – May 24, 2010"},"content":{"rendered":"

Good <\/span><\/strong>morning Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Can you <\/span><\/strong>explain <\/span><\/strong>n<\/span><\/strong>ational\u2019s position on hours needed for an E<\/span><\/strong>agle project<\/span><\/strong>? <\/span><\/strong>The guidelines are vague and subject to interpretation<\/span><\/strong>, and the concern in our troop <\/span><\/strong>is <\/span><\/strong>that, <\/span><\/strong>if the guidelines are subject to interpretation by <\/span><\/strong>boards of <\/span><\/strong>review, <\/span><\/strong>then <\/span><\/strong>requirements for hours spent on identical projects<\/span><\/strong> can vary between <\/span><\/strong>S<\/span><\/strong>couts, districts, even between councils.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong> How do<\/span><\/strong>es the national office assure that <\/span><\/strong>everybody is applying the same standard <\/span><\/strong>to all Eagle service projects\u2014n<\/span><\/strong>ot only for current projects but for projects that have been done in the past<\/span><\/strong>, too? (<\/span><\/strong>Ed<\/span><\/strong>ward<\/span><\/strong> Rabotski, <\/span><\/strong>SM, B<\/span><\/strong>lackhawk Area Council<\/span><\/strong>, WI)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Great question and thanks for asking it!<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s perfectly apparent <\/span>by simply<\/span> reading the <\/span>Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workbook<\/span><\/em>, published and regularly updated by the BSA national office, that the BSA recognizes <\/span>how<\/span> there can be enormous variations in <\/span>time from one project to the next<\/span>. A<\/span>n interesting excursion into just <\/span>how <\/span>large<\/span> the variation <\/span>might<\/span> be is to revisit <\/span> two intellectual giants<\/span> of the last centuries<\/span>: Leo Tolstoy <\/span>(1828-1910) <\/span>and Albert Einstein<\/span> (1879-1955). <\/span>Tolstoy’s classic<\/span> novel,<\/span>War and Peace<\/span><\/em>, contains 561,893 words<\/span>. <\/span> Einstein’s <\/span>General Theory of Relativity<\/span><\/em> is summed up with<\/span> just<\/span> five characters: E=MC<\/span>2<\/span><\/sup>.<\/span> The irony, of course, is that those five characters have had an arguably more profound impact on the world than even Tolstoy’s master epic, though the latter exponentially <\/span>larger.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now you may have noticed of late that<\/span> Eagle candidate<\/span>s are asked to provide the number of hours for their project<\/span>s<\/span> on the<\/span>ir<\/span> Eagle Scout Rank<\/span> Application<\/span>; however,<\/span> this there <\/span>neither <\/span>for <\/span> their Scoutmaster<\/span>n<\/span>or board of review to “evaluate”<\/span>\u2014<\/span>The <\/span> sole purpose is so that the BSA national office can gauge the approximate number of service hours <\/span>Eagle Scouts<\/span> provide to their communities over the course of a year… In other words, it’s used for publicity purposes (as well it should).<\/span><\/p>\n

Thus, the guidelines are not so much “vague” <\/span>with regard to service project hours, <\/span>they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re purposefully silent.<\/span><\/p>\n

Consequently, as BSA literature on the subject points out precisely, t<\/span>he task of the members of an Eagle Board of Review is not to attempt to determine <\/span>\u201ch<\/span>ow long and hard the Scout work<\/span>ed.\u201d The reviewers\u2019 onus is to determine, per the workbook and in conversation with the Scout himself, <\/span>was the <\/span>project<\/span> completed according to the pre-approved plan<\/span> and what, if any, unforeseen changes needed to be made and how well were they made so that the original goal was accomplished. The central issues are:<\/span> What <\/span> was accomplish<\/span>ed<\/span> and how d<\/span>id<\/span> this benefit the recipient(s)?<\/span> The issues are absolutely not: How many hours did he and his helpers put in and did they get dirt under their fingernails? The latter is simply not what an Eagle project is all about.<\/span><\/p>\n

According to the BSA, <\/span>there are<\/span> four <\/span> (and only four) <\/span>fundamental criteria to evaluate an Eagle <\/span>candidate\u2019s project:<\/span> 1. <\/span> Did the <\/span>Scout <\/span>demonstrate leadership of others?<\/span> 2. <\/span>Did the Scout indeed direct others to complete the project rather than do the work by himself?<\/span> 3. Was the project of real value to the recipient, and who from the recipient can verify its value?<\/span> 4. <\/span> Did the project follow the pre-approved plan or were modifications needed to bring it to completion?<\/span> Notice that <\/span>there is no <\/span>question about <\/span>the amount of time<\/span> a project took. T<\/span>his is absolutely deliberate<\/span>. T<\/span>ime is not a criterion<\/span>; i<\/span>t is, therefore, not subject to either “”interpretation” or “evaluation.” <\/span><\/p>\n

The established procedure by which these criteria<\/span>\u2014<\/span>and no arbitrary others<\/span>\u2014<\/span>are addressed across all districts and councils in the BSA is that at least one representative of the district or council advancement committee is always present at an Eagle board of review.<\/span>
\nFinally, it’s absolutely critical to keep always at the front of our minds that, going into a board of review, the goal of every member should be that this will be successful.<\/span> It’s truly not a “well, maybe yes or maybe no” situation. The goal is success.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi Andy<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019m looking to guide our <\/span><\/strong>Scouts on the proper or most common sense approach to setting up camps, so <\/span><\/strong>that <\/span><\/strong>we can train and be prepared to have a site set up late on Friday nights in the dark an<\/span><\/strong>d in the rain.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>For example<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong> what should come first<\/span><\/strong>\u2026? P<\/span><\/strong>atrol tents and personal gear<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong> or troop dining fly<\/span><\/strong> and other troop stuff? <\/span><\/strong>Any advice would be great<\/span><\/strong>!<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Also,<\/span><\/strong> what<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>s the proper sequence for a hand<\/span><\/strong>–<\/span><\/strong>washing station<\/span><\/strong>? Is it first tub, <\/span><\/strong>warm soapy water<\/span><\/strong>; second tub, <\/span><\/strong>clean warm water<\/span><\/strong>; third tub, <\/span><\/strong>disinfectant\/bleach mix<\/span><\/strong>? Thanks! (<\/span><\/strong>Mike Lonergan<\/span><\/strong>, ASM, <\/span><\/strong>Connecticut Yankee Council)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Your best “guide” is your Scouts’ own good sense (these are <\/span>their <\/span><\/em>decisions; not yours!<\/span> Your role is to prevent accidents; not to do their thinking for them)… For instance, in a downpour, the Senior Patrol Leader and Patrol Leaders might decide to quickly setting up a fly (to put all gear under) and then break out the tents so the gear can be transferred into them as fast and dry as possible.<\/span> If this is their decision, get out of their way and let \u2018em do it.<\/span> If they decide to get the tents set up first, and pack it in for the night, then get out of their way and let them do it that way, if that’s what they’ve decided.<\/span> What’s the worst that happens?<\/span> They get wet is all.<\/span><\/p>\n

Better idea, again<\/span>,<\/span> for the PLC to decide… Get to the campsite before dark on Friday nights, or, if it’s not daylight saving time, do the camp-out Saturday-to-Sunday so there’s no darkness problem.<\/span><\/p>\n

As for hand-washing, I’m assuming this<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ll be done in each patrol site, and there’ll be no “universal” troop wash-stand.<\/span> I hope I’m right about that, because the fact of the matter is that “troops” don’t go hiking and camping, <\/span>patrols <\/span><\/em>do! And for the actual method, your Scouts can check out page 307 of their<\/span>Boy Scout Handbook<\/span><\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Happy camping!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Can a person hold a Unit Commissioner position for the <\/span><\/strong>unit he or she is<\/span><\/strong> a part of? <\/span><\/strong>What are the rules on that?<\/span><\/strong> (Name & Council Withheld)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

You actually have two questions wrapped into one…<\/span><\/p>\n

First, unless we’re talking about a Unit Leader (e.g., Scoutmaster), any adult registered with a unit can be dual-registered as a Commissioner.<\/span><\/p>\n

The second aspect’s tricky… While there’s nothing strictly <\/span>verboten<\/span> about being the Unit Commissioner for a unit that you’re already registered in, it can be very confusing for everyone\u2014including the UC! <\/span>Let’s say you’re a committee member and also <\/span>that same unit\u2019s <\/span>Unit Commissioner, and you make a recommendation or suggestion to the troop committee or Scoutmaster to try this or that…<\/span>Which “hat” are you wearing?<\/span> Are you speaking as their UC, or as a committee member? Gets worse of you’re, let’s say, the Committee Chair or an Assistant Scoutmaster.<\/span> So, in general, this isn’t encouraged.<\/span> However, if you were to drop your unit registration, then a UC position might be just what the doctor ordered, because you’re already acquainted with the unit’s “personality” as well as the adults involved in keeping the unit strong, and you’re not considered an “outsider”!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi <\/span><\/strong>Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

At a recent camp<\/span><\/strong>out, I was told that <\/span><\/strong>all<\/span><\/strong> aerosols are prohibited.<\/span><\/strong> I didn\u2019t <\/span><\/strong>learn that in ITOLS or SALT<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong> and <\/span><\/strong>I\u2019m <\/span><\/strong>wonder<\/span><\/strong>ing if it<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>s a BSA policy, a <\/span><\/strong>d<\/span><\/strong>istrict <\/span><\/strong>or council <\/span><\/strong>policy, <\/span><\/strong>or what? Thanks. (<\/span><\/strong>Carol, ASM<\/span><\/strong>, Atlanta Area Council, GA)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cT<\/span>old” by whom, and from what capacity was this person speaking?<\/span> And what sort of \u201c<\/span>aerosol<\/span>\u201d are we talking about here\u2026 S<\/span>having cream?<\/span> Whipped cream?<\/span> Bug repellent?<\/span> Fire retardant?<\/span> Deodorant?<\/span> C4?<\/span><\/p>\n

B<\/span><\/strong>y a <\/span><\/strong>W<\/span><\/strong>ebelo<\/span><\/strong>s Den L<\/span><\/strong>eader who <\/span><\/strong>had <\/span><\/strong>just<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>\u201ccrossed over<\/span><\/strong>.\u201d<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>And I was using a <\/span><\/strong>sun<\/span><\/strong> screen and an <\/span><\/strong>insect repellant<\/span><\/strong> at the time.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

OK, so <\/span>this is about <\/span> another volunteer’s opinion<\/span> about <\/span> your personal toiletries\u2026 If you really want to c<\/span>heck this out with your council<\/span>\u2019s health and safety committee, or see if it\u2019<\/span>s in<\/span> the BSA<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s <\/span>Guide to Safe Scouting<\/span><\/em>, <\/span> that\u2019s OK. To me, it seems a bit <\/span>over-the-top, <\/span> especially since it came from a Boy Scouting \u201cnewbie.\u201d Personally, I wouldn’t waste my time<\/span> (and I sure wouldn\u2019t lose any sleep!).<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear A<\/span><\/strong>ndy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

My son earned the Interpreter Strip<\/span><\/strong> for Deutsch (German)<\/span><\/strong> last year<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong> as a Webelos II.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong> He\u2019s now a Boy Scout.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>Does this badge carry <\/span><\/strong>over to Boy Scouts?<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>(<\/span><\/strong>Randy Deal<\/span><\/strong>)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Ja!<\/span> Und ob!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear A<\/span><\/strong>ndy:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

I<\/span><\/strong>n the <\/span><\/strong>\u201c<\/span><\/strong>aims and me<\/span><\/strong>thods\u201d of Scouting, uniform<\/span><\/strong>s are <\/span><\/strong>considered a method of delivering the program. <\/span><\/strong>The Scouts in o<\/span><\/strong>ur troop have decided that <\/span><\/strong>\u201cf<\/span><\/strong>ield <\/span><\/strong>uniforms\u201d (aka \u201c<\/span><\/strong>Class B<\/span><\/strong>\u201d<\/span><\/strong>) will be worn throughout the warmer months of May through September, for all meetings, events, and activities. Our t<\/span><\/strong>roop’s field uniform is the same as the <\/span><\/strong>\u201cformal\u201d<\/span><\/strong>u<\/span><\/strong>niform, but <\/span><\/strong>we wear our t<\/span><\/strong>roop <\/span><\/strong>tee-shirt <\/span><\/strong>i<\/span><\/strong>n<\/span><\/strong>stead of<\/span><\/strong> the regular uniform shirt.<\/span><\/strong> Does this run counter to the spirit of uniforming, or<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong> since a “<\/span><\/strong>field <\/span><\/strong>u<\/span><\/strong>niform” is being uniformly <\/span><\/strong>worn, does that make it OK? (Name Withheld, Baltimore<\/span><\/strong> Area Council, MD)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

First, it\u2019s important to understand that, according to the BSA national council, there\u2019s only one uniform in Boy Scouting, and it includes shirt, belt, pants\/shorts, and socks; the cap, neckerchief<\/span>-and-slide<\/span>, and footgear having options. Further, when the BSA describes the wearing of a tee- or other shirt with the belt, pants\/shorts, and socks, <\/span> it does not refer to this combination as a \u201cuniform.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

So, for <\/span> accurate nomenclature, there\u2019s a \u201cuniform\u201d and there\u2019s sorta nothing else. According to the<\/span> BSA<\/span>, there are no <\/span>\u201cformal\u201d uniforms, \u201cfield\u201d uniforms, \u201cClass A\u201d uniforms, or even \u201cClass B\u201d uniforms, despite and widespread common practice among volunteers and paid staff alike. <\/span><\/p>\n

As for what sorts of \u201coptions\u201d a troop of Scouts <\/span>might vote on<\/span>, this could include the kind of BSA headgear all would wear, <\/span> a troop tee-shirt <\/span>or polo shirt <\/span> design for non-uniform wear<\/span>,<\/span> whether neckerchiefs will be worn and their color(s) or design, and that\u2019s about the extent of it. <\/span><\/p>\n

You see, <\/span>no troop in the BSA (or any country’s Scout organization, for that matter) gets to “vote” on whether or not they wear their uniform.<\/span>Is “climate” the argument?<\/span> Sorry, doesn’t cut the mustard… However, what the troop can definitely do is go to Scout shorts and Scout socks, with their short-sleeved Scout shirts during the summer months.<\/span>
\n As former Scoutmaster of a Southern California troop that wore their <\/span>short-sleeved <\/span> uniform shirts with neckerchiefs-and-slides, Scout shorts and Scout knee socks at all times<\/span>\u2014<\/span>troop meetings, hikes, and overnights, too<\/span>, plus courts of honor!\u2014<\/span>I<\/span> personally have no sympathy for “climate” or other arguments. We <\/span>always<\/span><\/em> looked like Scouts, and that got us special privileges with mountaineering instructors, TV news crews out looking for stories, our council’s special events people, local service clubs, professional sports teams (we’d get invited to the dugout or the locker room after the game) and on and on!<\/span> Talk about building a sense of pride, solidarity, belonging, and camaraderie! Wow!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

We have a Venturing crew advisor in our district who, after some ten years, is resigning <\/span><\/strong>her position <\/span><\/strong>because, she says, <\/span><\/strong>she can<\/span><\/strong>\u2019t keep the interest of young adults with so much else going on, the crew has been <\/span><\/strong>\u201c<\/span><\/strong>blackballed\u201d by the<\/span><\/strong>ir sister<\/span><\/strong> troop<\/span><\/strong>, leaving<\/span><\/strong> no possibility of recruitment, <\/span><\/strong>and the chartered organization that also sponsors both the troop and a pack isn\u2019t helping out.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>I<\/span><\/strong>\u2019m attempting to discover what<\/span><\/strong>\u2019s going on between the <\/span><\/strong>troop and crew<\/span><\/strong>, and I\u2019m planning a meeting with key people at the sponsor<\/span><\/strong>.<\/span><\/strong>Any suggestions on <\/span><\/strong>what to do with <\/span><\/strong>this situation would be greatly appreciated. (Jim Sweet<\/span><\/strong>, UC, Scenic Trails Council, MI)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

I’d say you’re making the right first steps… With a sponsor not behind the unit and a sister unit at odds with it (I’d wonder why, after ten years, they’re having a problem…unless it’s been a problem all along), registered youth dwindling, and potentially no replacement advisor in sight (I’m guessing she <\/span>didn\u2019t<\/span> groom a replacement), this may be a <\/span>moribund<\/span> situation.<\/span> But, as you\u2019ve already figured out, the only way to find out what’s going on is to start talking. That said, I’ve seen immensely successful Venturing crews that owe their success to two key factors: Self-government by the youth themselves with minimal direct interference by adults, and really cool and challenging programs!<\/span>Conversely, the general reason why Scouting units of any type ultimately fail is too much “leadership” by adults (<\/span>this is fine in Cubs, but there\u2019s no such thing as \u201cWebelos 3\u201d\u2026or \u201c4\u201d!), and unexcit<\/span>ing <\/span>and\/or stultified <\/span> program content.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

This is about <\/span><\/strong>my grandson\u2019s situation\u2026 He\u2019s a<\/span><\/strong> 12 year old Tenderfoot<\/span><\/strong>, and he just<\/span><\/strong> earned <\/span><\/strong>two merit badges at <\/span><\/strong>our c<\/span><\/strong>ouncil Scout Expo<\/span><\/strong>: <\/span><\/strong>Family Life and Chemistry.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>According to my grandson, he had done most of the work for each of these prior to the Expo<\/span><\/strong> itself; I wasn\u2019t there, so <\/span><\/strong>I do<\/span><\/strong>n\u2019t<\/span><\/strong> know what was done <\/span><\/strong>though the Merit Badge Counselors there, except that they signed him off on both merit badges,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

So here\u2019s the <\/span><\/strong>question\u2026 Can a Scoutmaster require a <\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong> to present all<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>his work to<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>the troop<\/span><\/strong>\u2019s own M<\/span><\/strong>erit <\/span><\/strong>B<\/span><\/strong>adge <\/span><\/strong>C<\/span><\/strong>oun<\/span><\/strong>selor, and then be <\/span><\/strong>questioned<\/span><\/strong> about his work<\/span><\/strong>?<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>What the troop is doing is saying that if <\/span><\/strong>a Scout doesn\u2019t \u201c<\/span><\/strong>pass\u201d the troop <\/span><\/strong>MBC\u2019s \u201c<\/span><\/strong>test,\u201d he doesn\u2019<\/span><\/strong>t get the badge<\/span><\/strong>, and if he, the Scout, doesn\u2019t go along with this, then he definitely doesn\u2019<\/span><\/strong>t get the badge.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

My <\/span><\/strong>own <\/span><\/strong>understanding was that once a <\/span><\/strong>Merit Badge Counselor signs a Scout off as completed, the Scout\u2019s earned the badge<\/span><\/strong>\u2014end of story<\/span><\/strong>. A former <\/span><\/strong>D<\/span><\/strong>istrict <\/span><\/strong>Advancement <\/span><\/strong>C<\/span><\/strong>hair<\/span><\/strong> has <\/span><\/strong>told me that I<\/span><\/strong>\u2019m correct<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong> unless <\/span><\/strong>BSA <\/span><\/strong>policy<\/span><\/strong>\u2019s changed in the p<\/span><\/strong>ast <\/span><\/strong>four<\/span><\/strong> years.<\/span><\/strong> (Am I, or has it?) On the other hand, sev<\/span><\/strong>eral people <\/span><\/strong>at our <\/span><\/strong>council\u2019s service center have said <\/span><\/strong>that a Scoutmaster <\/span><\/strong>and <\/span><\/strong>advancement committee have the right to place additional requirements<\/span><\/strong> on merit badges and other requirements, <\/span><\/strong>for the sake of quality control<\/span><\/strong>, and this averts \u201c<\/span><\/strong>problems\u201d at <\/span><\/strong>boards of r<\/span><\/strong>eview. <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Can<\/span><\/strong> you tell me where I can find <\/span><\/strong>the BSA n<\/span><\/strong>ational’s policy?<\/span><\/strong> I\u2019ve looked through <\/span><\/strong>the <\/span><\/strong>MBC\u2019s <\/span><\/strong>publications<\/span><\/strong>, and they say that<\/span><\/strong> when a <\/span><\/strong>Merit Badge Counselor <\/span><\/strong>signs off<\/span><\/strong>, the badge is earned<\/span><\/strong>. (Greg Guido)<\/span><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

Don’t let these people railroad your grandson<\/span> and his friends. This self-appointed tin god nonsense has to stop.<\/span><\/p>\n

1. The signature of a registered Merit Badge Counselor, signifying that all of the work has been completed according to the requirements, is the final word and unchallengeable authority. <\/span> Re-testing, re-examination, or even “innocent asking” by <\/span>anyone <\/span><\/em>is strictly prohibited by the BSA, and always has been.<\/span><\/p>\n

2. No person, unit, district, or council may add to or detract from any requirement, ever.<\/span> This, also, is a long-standing BSA national policy.<\/span>This may not be superseded by anyone or any entity, for any reason.<\/span><\/p>\n

Both of these policies may be found in any edition of <\/span>Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures<\/span><\/em>, by the Boy Scouts of America.<\/span> The chair of your council’s advancement committee can help you obtain a copy of this book, or provide you with excer<\/span>pts.<\/span><\/p>\n

Further, <\/span> Article X, Section 1, Clause 13 of the <\/span>Advancement Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America<\/span><\/em> states: \u201cThe responsibility for merit badges shall rest with the merit badge counselor\u201d and \u201cThere shall be no board of review procedure for merit badges.\u201d Game over.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear <\/span><\/strong>Andy,<\/span><\/strong>
\nSomewhere<\/span><\/strong>, I read where one of the requirements for a volunteer <\/span><\/strong>leader is paying their dues\/<\/span><\/strong>paying their <\/span><\/strong>way.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong> I have a <\/span><\/strong>D<\/span><\/strong>en <\/span><\/strong>Leader <\/span><\/strong>who<\/span><\/strong>has <\/span><\/strong>owed the<\/span><\/strong> pack popcorn money for the entire<\/span><\/strong> den\u2019s <\/span><\/strong>order for over a year and <\/span><\/strong>she just <\/span><\/strong>wo<\/span><\/strong>n\u2019t pay up<\/span><\/strong>\u2014she\u2019s always \u201cshort of money,\u201d or some other excuse! Can you <\/span><\/strong>tell me <\/span><\/strong>where I might find that <\/span><\/strong>requirement<\/span><\/strong>? <\/span><\/strong>(Name & Council Withheld)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

This issue is important, but it’s not so much about some “BSA rule”<\/span> as it is about fundamental honesty and sense of responsibility. If someone <\/span>owes<\/span> money, to anyone, they’re expected to pay up.<\/span> If she has some <\/span>valid reason for refusing to pay, you need to know what it is so that it can be dealt with.<\/span> Or, perhaps she merely forgot.<\/span> So give her a bill or invoice, and ask her when she expects to pay; then expect her to stick to that date. If it’s a flat refusal, and her reason is lame, you may want to ask your Chartered Organization Representative (who, along with <\/span>the pack\u2019s Committee Chair<\/span> has “hire-fire” authority) to caution her that continuing refusal to pay what’s due is setting an incorrect example for the Cubs in her den, and she<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ll need to be replaced (be sure you have someone who’s willing to replace her!) if this isn’t resolved in a reasonable amount of time.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

R<\/span><\/strong>equirement 9a <\/span><\/strong>for <\/span><\/strong>Camping <\/span><\/strong>merit <\/span><\/strong>b<\/span><\/strong>adge<\/span><\/strong> says, <\/span><\/strong>“…The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event.”<\/span><\/strong> Does <\/span><\/strong>\u201c<\/span><\/strong>designated Scouting activity or event<\/span><\/strong>\u201d<\/span><\/strong> include Cub Scout<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>camping? <\/span><\/strong>Some <\/span><\/strong>t<\/span><\/strong>roop <\/span><\/strong>committee members say that C<\/span><\/strong>ub camping can<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>t be <\/span><\/strong>counted.<\/span><\/strong>I disagree. <\/span><\/strong>Are Boy<\/span><\/strong> Scouts only allowed to Boy Scout events for this merit badge?<\/span><\/strong>Can a Boy Scout use Cub Scout camping done as a Cub Scout? Or is this a<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>road block throw<\/span><\/strong>n<\/span><\/strong> up by <\/span><\/strong>the troop c<\/span><\/strong>ommittee to obstruct<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>a<\/span><\/strong>Scout’s progression towards rank advancement? (Kevin Casey<\/span><\/strong>, ASM)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Let’s start here: Only Boy Scouts can earn merit badges.<\/span> Boy Scouting begins when a boy joins a troop. Consequently, any activity that <\/span>the <\/span> boy was engaged in prior to being a Boy Scout is not likely to be considered a Boy Scout activity.<\/span> Also, Cub Scout camping is fundamentally “family camping,” and family camping is not what Boy Scouts do.<\/span> Consequently, there’s no “roadblock” here; simply good sense<\/span> and sticking to the language of the requirement. However, it should also be pointed out that this isn\u2019t really anything for a troop committee to be involved with, as a committee, because the district\u2019s and council\u2019s <\/span>Merit Badge Counselor<\/span>s for Camping make this call and help the Scouts advance.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear A<\/span><\/strong>ndy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Is there a specific or recommended way to ask an Assistant Scoutmaster to leave the troop<\/span><\/strong>, when his services are no longer desired? Likewise with a Scout (his son)?<\/span><\/strong><\/strong> Does this fall under the responsibility of the Chartered Organization <\/span><\/strong>Rep<\/span><\/strong>resentative, or <\/span><\/strong>the Committee Chair?<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>This ASM father regularly <\/span><\/strong>argues with the Scoutmaster in view of the Scouts, among other things. Meanwhile, his son, who\u2019s earned <\/span><\/strong>Eagle, brags to the other <\/span><\/strong>Scouts<\/span><\/strong> about how he <\/span><\/strong>\u201c<\/span><\/strong>can beat the system<\/span><\/strong>\u201d<\/span><\/strong>and <\/span><\/strong>he\u2019s also <\/span><\/strong>disrespectful to the Scoutmaster.<\/span><\/strong> Any input? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

First, you need to separate these two individuals, because the process is different for each one…<\/span><\/p>\n

For the ASM, it’s simple.<\/span> ASMs report to the Scoutmaster and are “vetted” by the Committee Chair, so either one of these (better if it’s both!) just take him aside and tell him, “Thank you for your services, they will no longer be needed; your positi<\/span>on as ASM is terminated.” <\/span> Then, the next day, the C<\/span>ommittee Chair<\/span> or the Chartered Organization Representative goes to the council service center and has his name removed from the troop’s roster.<\/span><\/p>\n

For the Scout, it’s a bit more problematic.<\/span> Yes, a Scout can be removed from the troop by a Scoutmaster-and-committee decision that his actions have or are likely to bring harm to himself or other Scouts.<\/span> In an “in harm’s way” situation, dismissal is virtually mandatory, and can be immediate.<\/span> If, however, it’s simply because he’s annoying, rude, <\/span>and a general <\/span> pin-head, then he needs one or more Scoutmaster’s conferences. If he’s disrespectful to any youth or adult leader on a regular basis, then the SM and Committee Chair need to take him aside and tell him, point blank, that, unless he stops this immediately he will need to be removed from the troop.<\/span> This young man actually needs Scouting, or his attitudes are going to spill over into his everyday <\/span>world<\/span> and infect all aspects of it, maybe for life. While you’re definitely not to be considered licensed therapists, and don’t have to put up with his nonsense if it’s incorrigible, removing him from the troop would be a last resort. However, you can remove him from the troop’s roster without revoking his BSA membership… He’d simply be a sort of “man without a country” till he ages out.<\/span><\/p>\n

Be sure to let your district’s Commissioner staff and District Executive know what’s up, so <\/span>they<\/span><\/em> don’t get blind-sided.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

In our troop, w<\/span><\/strong>e have a new Scout who<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>s working on a couple of merit badges and wants to start another one.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong> The Scoutmaster and some other people in the troop think that he should be required to finish the merit badges he\u2019s already<\/span><\/strong> started first<\/span><\/strong>. The Scoutmaster and others in the troop also feel that some Scouts are too young to work on certain merit badges. <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

On the front of the <\/span><\/strong>\u201cblue card,<\/span><\/strong>\u201d<\/span><\/strong>there\u2019s<\/span><\/strong> a portion that<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>s titled<\/span><\/strong> \u201c<\/span><\/strong>application for merit badge<\/span><\/strong>\u201d and a<\/span><\/strong> little below the middle part it <\/span><\/strong>says \u201c\u2026a<\/span><\/strong>nd is qualified to begin working for merit badge noted on the reverse” followed by a line for the<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>signature of the unit leader.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong> I\u2019ve read the <\/span><\/strong>BSA literature<\/span><\/strong> and <\/span><\/strong>do <\/span><\/strong>understand that any Boy Scout may earn any merit badge at any time<\/span><\/strong>, but I\u2019m having <\/span><\/strong>trouble<\/span><\/strong> reconciling those two statements <\/span><\/strong>that I quoted to <\/span><\/strong>people who are<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>claiming<\/span><\/strong> that it<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>s the Scoutmaster’s job to guide the Scout<\/span><\/strong> and that<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>s what the signature on that line is used for\u2014so the <\/span><\/strong>Scoutmaster sign<\/span><\/strong>s<\/span><\/strong> off before the Scout can begin. <\/span><\/strong>(Name & Council Withheld)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

There are two issues interlocking here.<\/span> The first is simple definitions; the second is a learning opportunity.<\/span><\/p>\n

The merit badge application says “…is qualified to…”<\/span> This is different from saying “…is approved to…” “Qualified” means “able to,” by way of being a registered Boy Scout. Had it said “approved,” this would mean that there may be some sort of appraisal, examination, or confirmation process involved<\/span>\u2014<\/span>which of course there isn’t.<\/span> Therefore, a Scoutmaster can<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t withhold signing the application when a Scout says \u201cI want to work on this merit badge\u2026\u201d<\/span>This is described precisely in the previous <\/span>Boy Scout Handbook<\/span><\/em>: See page 187, in which it states that when the Scout asks to start a merit badge, the Scoutmaster complies.<\/span> The current handbook also describes to the Scout how to start on merit badges, but the previous handbook did a better job of describing precisely the actual steps\u2014which haven\u2019t changed, by the way.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, yes, it’s entirely possible for a Scout to take on too many things all at the same time.<\/span> However, that should be allowed to happen, because, in Scouting,<\/span> boys learn by doing<\/span><\/em>, not by being “managed.” The wise Scoutmaster will give new merit badge applications to the Scout whenever he asks for one, but will stay in touch with the Scout, along the lines of “How’s it goin’ for you?”<\/span> Then, if the Scout manages all the stuff he’s working on, great! And if he’s not, and the house o’ cards starts to tumble down, what a wonderful opportunity for the Scout and his Scoutmaster to have a conversation (not a “lecture”!) about biting off what we can chew!<\/span><\/p>\n

In Scouting, we always give the Scout “room” to safely mess up, and then help him work through it; we don’t lecture him or use our infinite wisdom to “save” him from error… Some Scouts know how to read the “Danger-Electrified Fence” sign; others have to pee on it to find out how it works.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

I can<\/span><\/strong>\u2019t seem to find <\/span><\/strong>where it\u2019s written, <\/span><\/strong>how many <\/span><\/strong>c<\/span><\/strong>ommittee members must <\/span><\/strong>attend, <\/span><\/strong>for a <\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong> to present his Eag<\/span><\/strong>le service project for approval.<\/span><\/strong> It seems there<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>s some discussion about whether the <\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong> must come before the full <\/span><\/strong>c<\/span><\/strong>ommittee or just a few <\/span><\/strong>c<\/span><\/strong>ommittee members<\/span><\/strong>,<\/span><\/strong> to seek approval to be<\/span><\/strong>gin<\/span><\/strong> his project<\/span><\/strong>, and <\/span><\/strong>which is BSA policy.<\/span><\/strong> I thought I<\/span><\/strong>\u2019<\/span><\/strong>d seen somewhere that <\/span><\/strong>three<\/span><\/strong> was the magic number and that <\/span><\/strong>three c<\/span><\/strong>ommittee members were required for approval. Related to that, i<\/span><\/strong>f a <\/span><\/strong>Scoutmaster wants to request that the <\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong> come before the full <\/span><\/strong>c<\/span><\/strong>ommittee, is that within BSA policy?<\/span><\/strong> (<\/span><\/strong>Debbie Cross<\/span><\/strong>, National Capital Area Council, MD)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Thanks for asking.<\/span> Here’s the short answer<\/span> to the first question<\/span>: One.<\/span><\/p>\n

This isn\u2019<\/span>t a “committee vote” or any such thing.<\/span> The purpose of having a member (any member) of the troop committee, and also the Scoutmaster, look over the project plan before it goes to the district or council advancement chair is <\/span>not<\/span><\/em> to “play judge<\/span>” but to <\/span>coach<\/span><\/em>, so that the Scout thinks through the various details and lays them out on paper.<\/span> One of the best teachers I ever had put it this way: You don’t know what you really think until you write it on paper.<\/span> He was absolutely right on the money, and I’ve practiced this ever since.<\/span> This is what your Scouts are going to do.<\/span> Think of it this way: The project plan is a “recipe”… If the Scout couldn’t do the project (for whatever reason) there’s enough detail in his plan so that someone totally unfamiliar with the project could carry it out using that plan alone.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, no “third degrees” here, and no “voting”… Help<\/span> that Scout dot the i’s and cross the t’s and you’re doing exactly what he needs.<\/span>
\n By the way, the district or council advancement person who is the last to look over the plan before the Scout gets underway is charged with exactly the same responsibility to the Scout: <\/span> HELP HIM SUCCEED!<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

If a <\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong>who <\/span><\/strong>earns <\/span><\/strong>his <\/span><\/strong>Eagle <\/span><\/strong>rank<\/span><\/strong>and <\/span><\/strong>has 36 merit badges<\/span><\/strong> simply <\/span><\/strong>wait <\/span><\/strong>three<\/span><\/strong> months and apply for the Silver Palm? Or, <\/span><\/strong>must he earn Bronze, then <\/span><\/strong>three months later Gold, then finally Silver three months after that.<\/span><\/strong><\/strong> Many <\/span><\/strong>Scouts<\/span><\/strong> don’t have <\/span><\/strong>nine more months<\/span><\/strong> after Eagle <\/span><\/strong>before they turn 18, but they<\/span><\/strong> do have <\/span><\/strong>enough merit badges for Palms (<\/span><\/strong>Joe LeClair<\/span><\/strong>)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

The BSA informs us that <\/span>Palms come in order, in increments of five merit badges and three months each… First three months: Bronze Palm; second three months: Gold Palm (Bronze comes off the ribbon); third three months: Silver Palm (Gold comes off the ribbon); fourth three months: second Bronze Palm<\/span> (stays on the ribbon with the Silver)<\/span>; fifth three months: second Gold Palm<\/span> (Bronze, again, comes off)<\/span>; and so on…<\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve known of Scouts with four dozen or more merit badges as Life Scouts, who earn <\/span>Eagle <\/span>rank at age<\/span> 17 years-10 months.<\/span> Guess what… No palms.<\/span> End of story, unfortunately, but that’s the way it happens,<\/span>sometimes<\/span>\u2014and that\u2019s one of Scouting\u2019s \u201clife lessons.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

So <\/span><\/strong>even though a <\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong>may have<\/span><\/strong> 15 <\/span><\/strong>merit<\/span><\/strong> badges <\/span><\/strong>more than the 21 he needs for Eagle, <\/span><\/strong>on the day of his Eagle Board of Review, he can\u2019t apply for <\/span><\/strong>a<\/span><\/strong> Silver Palm until he goes through the steps of Bronze and Gold and <\/span><\/strong>the three-month increments for each\u2026 r<\/span><\/strong>ight?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

That’s right<\/span>…and it’s written out for the Scout to read for himself, in the <\/span>Boy Scout Handbook<\/span><\/em> that he\u2019s been totin\u2019 for six years!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Is there any BSA rule or regulation on who approves a <\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong> for <\/span><\/strong>\u201c<\/span><\/strong>Scout<\/span><\/strong> spirit<\/span><\/strong>\u201d<\/span><\/strong>?<\/span><\/strong><\/strong>Would it be the <\/span><\/strong>Scoutmaster? <\/span><\/strong>Perhaps the troop committee<\/span><\/strong>?<\/span><\/strong> (Michael Walsh<\/span><\/strong>)<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Let’s start <\/span> with some arithmetic<\/span>: Troop meetings <\/span> typically last about 90 minutes and <\/span>then <\/span> maybe once a month there’s a troop outing of some sort, and these are the times when a Scoutmaster and\/or committee (if committee members <\/span>happen to be at these events as well, which is by no means a certainty) can “observe” a Scout, <\/span> while he\u2019s in and amongst <\/span>a couple dozen of his fellow Scouts.<\/span>So, in sum, <\/span> these possible “observation<\/span> opportunitie<\/span>s” might account for as much as 75 minutes per Scout, per month,<\/span> in an average troop.<\/span> Not too bad, except that there are over 43<\/span>,000<\/span> minutes in a month<\/span>, which<\/span> means that<\/span> the actual<\/span> “observation <\/span> opportunity time” in Scouting represents less than two-tenths of one percent (0.0017) of a Scout’s life.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, <\/span> let’s take a look at the <\/span>language of <\/span> requirement, which refers not to exclusively Scouting activities but <\/span>to the Scout\u2019s <\/span><\/em>daily life<\/span><\/span><\/em>\u2014in other words, all 43,000 minutes in an average month. Extend this to the minimum six months between Star and Life, or Life and Eagle, and you have 7.5 hours of \u201cobservation opportunity\u201d out of a total of 4,335 hours in that six-month time-frame. To look at this another way, observation time is <\/span>about <\/span> equal to a flight from <\/span>New York<\/span> to Helsinki while actual time available is the equivalent of 28 round-trips to the Moon.<\/span><\/p>\n

So w<\/span>ho, then, can best assess how well a Scout is “living the Scout Oath and Law in his daily life”?<\/span> Why that’s easy: The Scout himself<\/span>! <\/span> Just ask him<\/span>: He\u2019ll tell you, and you can believe him, because this is \u201cScout\u2019s honor.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Happy Scouting!<\/p>\n

\n

Andy<\/h3>\n<\/form>\n\n\n\n
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Got a question? Have an idea? Send it to AskAndyBSA@yahoo.com<\/a>. (Please include your POSITION and COUNCIL NAME or TOWN & STATE)<\/p>\n

(May 24, 2010 \u2013 Copyright \u00a9 Andy McCommish 2010)<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

Letters to AskAndy may be published at the discretion of the columnist and the editor. If you prefer to have your name or affiliation withheld from publication, please advise in your letter..<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Good morning Andy, Can you explain national\u2019s position on hours needed for an Eagle project? The guidelines are vague and subject to interpretation, and the concern in our troop is that, if the guidelines are subject to interpretation by boards of review, then requirements for hours spent on identical projects can vary between Scouts, districts, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-832","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-6"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/832","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=832"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/832\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":834,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/832\/revisions\/834"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=832"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=832"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=832"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}