{"id":893,"date":"2010-12-04T16:17:15","date_gmt":"2010-12-04T21:17:15","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/?p=893"},"modified":"2011-11-13T16:19:52","modified_gmt":"2011-11-13T21:19:52","slug":"issue-235-december-4-2010","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/2010\/12\/issue-235-december-4-2010\/","title":{"rendered":"Issue 235 – December 4, 2010"},"content":{"rendered":"

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

About not making Eagle, no question here, but a comment on your answer to that gal whose friend regrets not making Eagle. Many of the guys I know in Scouting are in that same category, including myself. Serving as Advancement Coordinator for my troop, I sometimes point out to our Scouts that I never made it past First Class, but whenever one of you<\/em> advances, a little bit of me<\/em> advances, too! (Bill Ewing, Great Southwest Council, NM)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Thanks! What a wonderful way to think about it! Do take a moment and read my November 2002 column (if you haven’t already). To my mind, being A FIRST-CLASS SCOUT<\/em> is what it’s all about!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy, <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m a Scoutmaster. Recently, we had a situation where our Senior Patrol Leader and his ASPL couldn\u2019t make it to a weekend camping trip. Of the nine Scouts who attended, there was a Star Scout-Den Chief\/former Troop Guide and a First Class Scout-Patrol Leader\/former Chaplain Aide, and both wanted to be in charge of the campout. My dilemma was to choose which Scout would be in charge (they came to me for my advice). I chose the more experienced Star Scout. Another adult leader argued that because the First Class Scout was a member of the Patrol Leaders Council and the Star Scout, as a Den Chief, wasn\u2019t, the choice should have been the First Class Scout. Yet, at the time, to me, it was a \u201cno-brainer.\u201d Since then, I\u2019ve done my research (Scoutmaster Handbook, Boy Scout Handbook, <\/strong>usscouts.org<\/strong><\/a>, and so on) and I haven\u2019t found a precedent or justification for putting the First Class Scout in charge over the Star Scout. I guess we could have held an election, in which case the Scouts could have been led by a popular Tenderfoot. But, why have a rank structure base upon achieved skills if we\u2019re only going to trump rank with election results. I understand the value of electing the Patrol Leader and other Patrol Leaders Council positions, but at what point to we recognize a Scout\u2019s seniority in rank over elections? Before I made my decision, I tried to consider what Baden-Powell would have done. I hope I didn\u2019t upset his spirit. Your help, please. (Jay Stroup, SM)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

You certainly had an interesting situation, and I do appreciate the thought you put into your decision and your commitment to doing the very best you can for the Scouts you’re serving as Scoutmaster. It’s not unlikely that something along these lines will happen again, so let’s think about next time…<\/span><\/p>\n

Let’s start here: B-P would advise us to “never do for a Scout what he can do for himself.” This is how we grow boys into men. We’d also want to remember that boys need to have as many opportunities to make decisions as possible, so that they can make good ones and not-so-good ones, and learn the difference, and the consequences. This is how boys gain experience (you can’t learn anything if everything’s spoon-fed to you). So, with these philosophies in mind, what might happen next time? Do you think the Scouts themselves should take a vote amongst themselves for who’s going to be the overall youth leader for the duration of the campout? If they do, and they elect a popular Scout, is this a bad thing? Popular Scouts are usually the friendly ones, and you and I know we get a lot more accomplished from others when we use honey instead of vinegar! If the Scouts aren’t worried about the Scout’s particular rank, why should we worry? After all, rank is mostly about knowledge and skills; Scouts learn about leadership when their Scoutmasters quietly mentor and guide them from “behind the curtains,” so to speak.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, the sum of it is this: Step back, ask the Scouts to consider who they’d like to be the campout leader for the weekend, and then support their decision.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

When I had this question and nobody could give me a \u201cfor sure\u201d answer, I figured that I\u2019d ask you\u2026<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

We\u2019re in Alaska. Our units have to have OKPIK-trained people to go winter camping, and yet our council just cancelled the training (due to lack of pre-registrations, they say). So I\u2019m now wondering what\u2019s needed to consider someone OKPIK trained. Is there a curriculum or syllabus that I can find somewhere, or is it just what the people that put on the training decide to do? I know there\u2019s a book on the subject, and we could tell everybody to read that, but that\u2019s not what I want to do. I\u2019d like to actually put on the training. Any thoughts? (Dorte Mobley, Troop CC, Great Alaska Council, Wasilla, AK)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m sorry to learn of your council’s OKPIK training dilemma. Just by way of background (with thanks to Wikipedia), OKPIK, (Inuit for \u201csnowy owl\u201d and pronounced as “OOk’ pick”) is the cold-weather adventure program first offered by the BSA’s Northern Tier National High Adventure Base at the Charles L. Sommers Canoe Base in Ely, Minnesota. As the result of Northern Tier’s Cold Weather Training program, that teaches leaders to develop their own cold-weather program, there are similar programs named after and based on OKPIK offered by councils around the country; for example, Tahosa High Adventure Base in Colorado offers a similar program, and Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico offers a cold weather camping program called KANIK. Several other local councils have named their own local winter camping programs OKPIK, and use a manual called Okpik: Cold-Weather Camping<\/span><\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve now just gone to the official BSA website and read the entire Local Tour Permit Application (BSA No. 34426), for unit trips of less than 500 miles. Nowhere on this application is there a statement or check-box requiring OKPIK training. If your council is demanding OKPIK training in order for your troop to go winter camping (which, I would imagine, is the prevalent type of camping done in your neck of the woods, for a good hunk of the year), then your council would be, I\u2019d think, honor-bound to offer this training, regardless of \u201cpre-registrations.\u201d If they don\u2019t, then it’s more than unreasonable for them to demand that you all have such training, especially when the BSA’s own Tour Permit Application doesn’t require it. <\/span><\/p>\n

Moreover, if there’s one type of camping a bunch of Scouts and Scouters living in Wasilla, Alaska would be expected to be pretty proficient at, it’s…Duh…winter camping.<\/span><\/p>\n

To take this a step further down the training continuum, your council\u2019s training committee may need to decide whether their goal is to \u201cput on training courses\u201d or is it to get people trained<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

All that said, how about reaching out to the folks at Northern Tier and\/or Philmont, and asking if they’ll share the OKPIK or KANIK training syllabus with you (offer to pay for the copying and shipping, if possible, just to hustle things along). I’ll bet they’ll help you all out!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi, Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I have a question about Scouters holding multiple positions within a troop. I understand that other than CC-CR, one can’t hold more than one unit-level position within the same unit. Does this apply as well to “jobs” on the troop committee? For instance, can someone be both a committee member who functions as secretary (keeps committee meeting minutes) and also advancement coordinator? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Page 2 of the BSA Adult Volunteer Application spells out the policy on holding multiple registered positions within the same unit. Your own summary of it is 99% accurate. However, as you might expect, this policy applies to registrations; not actual responsibilities. So yes, a committee member might well be the troop’s advancement coordinator and also, let’s say, the secretary or treasurer. Or, one might be an “at-large” committee member and the troop\u2019s Chaplain. Obviously, one wouldn’t be a committee member and also be carrying out the responsibilities of an Assistant Scoutmaster, even if informally or temporarily. And it would be poor business for the Committee Chair to have any secondary responsibilities, because this position is responsible for not only securing an adequate number or volunteers but also delegating responsibilities to them. So, while the technical answer to your question is in the affirmative, a unit is nevertheless ill advised to double-up on responsibilities; better to bring in more folks and make everyone’s job a little lighter!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My son, a Webelos Scout, and I were selling Trail\u2019s End popcorn outside a local supermarket and not having much luck. My son really wanted to get something going, so he made a small container that respectfully asked for donations. He was very polite about it and first asked people if they\u2019d like to buy some popcorn, and if not, maybe they\u2019d like to make a small donation. He explained what the money would be used for, and he had tremendous success. He also learned a lot about people that day and had a great time, and it wasn\u2019t frowned upon by even a single store customer that day! What are your thoughts about this, and is it acceptable if done the right way? (Bryan Kruskol, ADL, Three Fires Council, IL) <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Your son’s creativity and initiative were good ideas and I’m glad they met with success; however, he needs to know that Scouts do offer value for value received and that while we can accept spontaneous donations, we don’t ask for them\u2014we’re not The Salvation Army (which is not to say there’s anything wrong with that organization; it\u2019s simply that the BSA has different fund-raising methods).<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My son recently felt that he\u2019d completed all requirements for Star rank and so asked his Scoutmaster for a conference, to wrap it up. The Scoutmaster said no. What\u2019s going on here? <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My own understanding is that, in a situation like this, the Scoutmaster is obliged to explain clearly why the conference will not be held and why advancement will be delayed because of this, and then provide the Scout with guidance, so that the Scout can correct or finish whatever the Scoutmaster believes to be the case, and then get moving forward again. No behavioral issues have ever been mentioned to me, by any of the troop\u2019s adult volunteers, and I know for a fact that my son has served almost double the required number of service hours, completed all the merit badges necessary, has been the troop\u2019s Quartermaster for five months as a First Class Scout, and hasn\u2019t missed a single camping trip since he joined the troop three years ago.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m myself a troop committee member and in that capacity have asked the Committee Chair (the Scoutmaster\u2019s wife) to meet so that we can discuss this situation. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions that might help this roadblock? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

If a Scout has completed all requirements for a rank\u2014and even if he hasn\u2019t!\u2014there\u2019s absolutely no valid reason for withholding a conference from a Scout. For goodness sakes, this is what Scoutmasters are supposed to be doing, and shame on any man or woman who holds a Scout’s advancement hostage by refusing to conference with him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Second point: When a Scout completes all other requirements for a rank, he conferences with his Scoutmaster, whose job it is to prepare the Scout for his board of review. The BSA provides no alternative path, and no options on delaying or withholding a conference OR a board of review.<\/span><\/p>\n

If the leaders of this troop persist with this nonsense, go find another troop for your son\u2014one that gets it right\u2014and transfer him away from these people as fast as you can. If your son is reluctant because he’ll possibly miss his friends, talk with his friends’ parents and get them to transfer their sons, too. People who mis-use the BSA program deserve to have no Scouts at all!<\/span><\/p>\n

When the food\u2019s rotten, we get out of the restaurant and never return.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Our son attends boarding school away from home and wants to work on merit badges during the school year. He\u2019s a Star Scout and this is his freshman year of high school. There\u2019s a troop at his school and the Scoutmaster there is willing to work with my son and other boys who are Scouts and in the same circumstance, so they can continue on their path to Eagle. What, if any, limitations might there be for my son doing it this way? (Gina Farkouh)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Your son may want to get out his handbook, sit down with the local Scoutmaster, and see what non-merit badge requirements, if any, he can do in connection with that local troop. Then he needs to check with his home Scoutmaster, to see if this is OK with him (it should be just fine). In addition, the local Scoutmaster (with the prior agreement of your son’s home Scoutmaster\u2014again, this should be fine, but the courtesy should be extended) can provide him with the names and contact information for counselors for additional merit badges he might like to work on while away.<\/span><\/p>\n

As a Star Scout, your son is very capable of doing these things and making these contacts for himself; please give him the opportunity to do this (despite your natural desire to do this for him, he needs to do this for himself).<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Where, on an Eagle Scout\u2019s uniform, would he wear his Eagle palms? (John Biuk)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

The palms are pinned on the ribbon of his Eagle medal, which he wears on special formal occasions, such as courts of honor. Remember that palms are “replacements”… Earn 5 merit badges and you wear bronze; earn 5 more and you remove the bronze and replace it with gold, etc.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hi Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Our Senior Patrol Leader got into some trouble at school, that got him suspended. Shortly after this, the young man\u2019s father and the Scoutmaster reported the situation to the committee, advising the committee that the Scoutmaster had, in turn, chosen to suspend the Scout from both his Senior Patrol Leader position and from the troop as well, for six months, to which the father had agreed. I decided to speak up, on the point that we, his troop, are this young man\u2019s \u201cScout family,\u201d and we\u2019re here to support our own. I went on to state that, as parents, we have experienced, or will, bad decisions made by our teen-aged sons, and daughters too, and that whatever happened is actually outside the troop and Scouting.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

This Scout is 17 years old and Life rank, working toward Eagle. He\u2019s been active in the troop and his fellow Scouts elected him Senior Patrol Leader\u2014not a small thing. His 18<\/strong>th<\/strong><\/sup> birthday is in eight months, and he\u2019s wrapping up his last three merit badges right now. This suspension from the troop, if it happens, effectively guarantees that he\u2019ll not be able to qualify for all of the Eagle requirements (tenure, project, etc.). Meanwhile, he\u2019s also a Den Chief, and that\u2019s been taken away, too.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve spoken with this young man personally and offered to coach him through his project and get him the names of any Merit Badge Counselors he might need. He was appreciative and wants to do this.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I then contacted the Scoutmaster and noted that, in the two years I\u2019ve been associated with this troop and known this Scout, he\u2019s never failed to show that he lives the Scout Oath and Law, shown Scout spirit, lead his fellow Scouts, and participating in the troop\u2019s meetings and outdoor activities. I then pointed out that we as a troop aren\u2019t this young man\u2019s judge and jury, nor should we be toward any Scout, and that typically any discipline issue would be handled in the Scout\u2019s board of review, where he can reflect on his actions and consequences in a safe place.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Unfortunately, the Scoutmaster\u2019s response was that the suspension will stand and, therefore, this Scout won\u2019t be making Eagle, for the reasons I\u2019ve already mentioned. He then proceeded to lecture on how a Scout should be \u201cliving the Oath and Law at all times, wherever he is.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I know there are other troops or Venturing crews he could transfer to, and I\u2019m wondering if this might be the wiser course of action, given the intransigence of the Scoutmaster. (Troop Advancement Coordinator, Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

If you want a direct response, you’ll need to be direct with me: What does “some trouble” mean? Until you spill the beans here, I can’t help a whole heck of a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n

Also, what’s the Scoutmaster’s and committee’s position on the fact that what happened had nothing whatsoever to do with the troop?<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cTrouble\u201d as in suspension from school for approximately one school week. I\u2019ve been a substitute teacher in this school, so I know they have a zero tolerance policy there, for weapons, illegal substances, or fighting. But I also know that local law enforcement (that is, the police) have not been called upon or involved and that there are no charges pending, so my guess is that it was the third infraction; not either of the first two.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

The Scoutmaster\u2019s stated position is that the Scout wasn\u2019t living the Scout Oath and Law in his personal life. But I\u2019ve also learned that, before the troop elected him Senior Patrol Leader, the Scoutmaster had taken him aside and told this young man that if he didn\u2019t live up to the Scoutmaster\u2019s \u201cexpectations,\u201d he\u2019s bust him from being SPL. (Frankly, when I heard that from the Scoutmaster I was shocked and deeply saddened.) As a mark of this young man\u2019s popularity and leadership qualities, this was the second time\u2014not back-to-back!\u2014that his fellow Scouts elected him SPL, and in-between the other SPL appointed him ASPL!<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

In further conversations with the father, he\u2019s thrilled that I\u2019m offering to work with his son on advancement and does expect that a transfer to another unit will be necessary.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Any thoughts you can share on this situation would be greatly appreciated. (TAC)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

OK, so the school suspension is a good whack upside the head. This young man hasn’t been arrested or arraigned, he’s not permanently suspended, and no one’s going to send him up to the big house. In short, he’s not a “juvie” and shouldn’t be treated like one.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, he made a mistake. The school is obviously forgiving him. If the Scoutmaster can’t do the same, this troop needs a different Scoutmaster, and I hope you all on the committee realize this, bounce this guy out on his ear, and get yourselves someone who understands teen-aged boys instead of some self-righteous pinhead.<\/span><\/p>\n

If that can’t happen, then absolutely this young man should get himself into a different troop… One with a Scoutmaster who, as Baden-Powell would say, “still has the boy-spirit in him,” because, as B-P also advised, “The role of the Scoutmaster is to find the good in every boy, and bring it out.”<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My son, a Webelos Scout, will be crossing over to Boy Scouts in the early spring and wants to save money so he can go to the Scouts\u2019 National Jamboree in 2013. But apparently he\u2019ll need to be a specific age and\/or rank in order to go. He was bummed earlier this year because he wanted to go to the 2010 Centennial Jamboree and I had to tell him he couldn\u2019t go because he\u2019s only a Cub Scout. What are the rules on this? (Heather Phillips-Wilkie, DRT Staff, Northeast Georgia Area Council)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

From Northeast Georgia, you were some 500 to 600 miles and a good 9- to 10-hour drive from this past summer\u2019s Jamboree site, and that would have been an unquestionably grueling trip, even for a sturdy Webelos Scout! But the good news is that Jamborees are scheduled so that, during a boy’s “Scouting career” there’s at least one he’ll be eligible to attend. If your son will be age 12 by July 1, 2013, he\u2019s in the clear! If not, then he’ll certainly be eligible in 2017!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My son crossed over to a troop this past April and we\u2019re just getting things jumping as a Boy Scout. For several years up till April, I was \u201cLeader of the Pack.\u201d Now, I find myself somewhat at odds with the other adult leaders, regarding a planned “shakedown hike\u201d for the Scouts, so they can get to practice skills for backpack camping (instead of the less strenuous \u201ccar camping\u201d). The location is a state park, and it\u2019s been proposed that the Scouts use the walk-in campsites. These are regulated sites inside the park, and the Scouts would be strung out, two per site, over about a half-mile of public trail. Spacing the adults out between the Scouts\u2019 campsites will leave many of the boys in the woods with no direct line-of-sight.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Everything I learned in Cub Scouts makes this a major no-no. Is the latitude that much greater in Boy Scouts, compared to Cubs? (Tony Waybright) <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Yup, there’s a huge difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts! Read the first couple of chapters of your son’s handbook and you’ll begin to get the idea. <\/span><\/p>\n

The troop you\u2019ve described seems to be doing things right… The Scouts are using the Buddy System, there are adult volunteers posted at intervals but far enough away that the Scouts can feel like they’re on their own (which is how Boy Scouts works), and they’ve got some tasks to accomplish. If you’re experiencing “separation anxiety,” that’s a good thing, because Boy Scouting is definitely not a dad-and-lad activity! It’s Scouts with Scouts! So please don’t try to hover over your son and turn his Boy Scouting experience into nothing more than “Webelos 3”! You’re not Akela anymore, Dad. Time to let go.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m the Scoutmaster of a newly formed troop in town. Although we have a local Cub Scout pack, for years up until we started this troop, there was no troop anywhere nearby and boys had to go to one or the other of two troops that were a good ten miles away. We started with just six boys; we now have three dozen and haven\u2019t slowed down!<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

We recently took on popcorn sales as a fund-raiser, and coordinated selling locations with the local pack, which was willing to share with the troop places that they\u2019d been selling at for any number of years, with no difficulties of any kind. <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

But now the difficulty\u2026 One of the troops I mentioned before has come into our town and reserved all of the store fronts we\u2019d planned to be at (and which the pack had been at for years). OK, not ideal, but let\u2019s be \u201ccourteous\u201d so we went and found other locations for selling. But then the same other troop started showing up at those places, too, and saying that they\u2019d \u201cclaimed\u201d them. They even filed formal complaints with the shopping center management companies and made allegations that we didn\u2019t have tour permits or permission to be at these locations (neither was true). I\u2019m trying hard to stay \u201cfriendly\u201d through this whole chain of events, but I\u2019m beginning to find this beyond possible.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Well the popcorn \u201cselling season\u201d has ended. But I\u2019m concerned that this behavior will move into \u201cScouting for Food,\u201d since we\u2019ve been assigned to a location in our immediate that they have now requested, and have since shown that they\u2019re quite disturbed that it was awarded to us. If past behavior repeats itself, we\u2019re going to have a predatory situation and a significant conflict.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

How do I stop this from escalating? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Have you considered sitting down over a cup of coffee with that troop’s Scoutmaster? Seems to me you guys ought to be able to work things out, if you can get face-to-face in neutral territory, and break bread together (the breaking bread part\u2019s important\u2014it tends to de-fuse things and keeps the six-guns in their holsters). Email? Naaaaah… Only makes escalations happen faster. Go have that cuppa java! And do the same thing you’d tell a couple o’ Scouts who were having some problems: “Come back to me when you two have worked out a resolution, and tell me about it.”<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Dear Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My husband is the new Scoutmaster for our troop and I\u2019m the new advancement coordinator. We also have a new Committee Chair. We took on these positions after the three people who\u2019d held them for any number of years retired from the troop. Up till this change-over, the troop hadn\u2019t followed the BSA-prescribed program; for instance, all decisions about everything were made solely by the Scoutmaster and Committee Chair. My husband, on the other hand, is an advocate of the actual Scouting program with the support of the new Committee Chair, who is also setting up, for the first time, a real troop committee. <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My husband is attempting to bring forward different ideas and change behaviors regarding camping. One of the problems we face is that many parents that have scheduled their sons with sport activities that conflict with the troop\u2019s camping trips. Up to now, the way it\u2019s been done is that, if the camping trip is from Friday evening through Sunday morning, these parents either dropped off their sons on Saturday afternoon or picked them up late Saturday afternoon or very early Sunday morning. One parent had his son go with the troop on Friday evening only to pick him up early Saturday morning! The problem with this, of course, is that the Scout subjected to this doesn\u2019t get the full benefit of the camping program, doesn\u2019t get to pitch in and help pack up the campsite on Sunday, and doesn\u2019t get his turn taking home equipment to clean or a tent to air out and sweep for the next trip.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s a camping trip coming up, and we have 22 Scouts signed up to go, among whom nine are planning (per their parents\u2019 instructions) to either arrive late or leave early. When my husband suggested that, when there\u2019s a conflict like this, the Scout simply makes a decision to either go camping with his troop or go to his sports activity, but let\u2019s stop this shuffling and shuttling, several of the parents became enraged. <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Are we looking at this wrong? Maybe we ought not to care that there are Scouts not getting the full benefit of the Scouting program. Several of the Scouts who need to leave early are in leadership positions, so when they leave who\u2019s in charge? What, if anything, can my husband as Scoutmaster do? And how do we record these Scouts\u2019 camping time? (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

As part of developing a way to handle this in the long run, how about your husband asks the Senior Patrol Leader to present the issue to the Patrol Leaders Council and see what the young men who lead the troop think about this and how to handle it…<\/span><\/p>\n

To be honest, that\u2019s not much of an answer. Actually, while some of the Patrol Leaders\u2019 parents have complained, it\u2019s the Senior Patrol Leader and his parents who are the problem. Oh well, we’ll figure it out\u2026<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I’m not sure what you were expecting… there are rarely any “magic bullets” and most solutions come though facing the situation and developing a solution. In your own situation, just because the Senior Patrol Leader is your alleged “culprit” is no reason to not proceed in the Scouting way. It becomes his responsibility to raise the subject at a PLC, describe the two sides of the situation, and then open it up for further discussions among the Patrol Leaders (all of whom obviously need to be present, or covered for by their assistants). Then, when a possible method for handling the problem is decided on by the PLC, the Senior Patrol Leader will be expected to conform to it not only right along with everyone else, but as the ideal role model for the other Scouts. Whenever, in our infinite wisdom, we adults attempt to “lay down the law” with youth such as Scouts, we instantly establish an “us-and-them” situation, as in kids-and-parents, kids-and-teachers, and so on. In Scouting this is the last place we want to go and we avoid this wherever possible by having the solution needed come from the Scouts. When they create and initiate it, they own it. That’s why it’ll work. Trust\u2026and guide.<\/span><\/p>\n

Thank you. I\u2019ll share your wise words with our committee. <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve found that “when in doubt, ask the Scout” usually works. Here\u2019s a brief (and true) story\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Some years ago, a troop was having a problem with “electronics” being brought along on camping trips. Drove the Scoutmaster nuts! The troop committee was ready to ban anything that had an on-off button except flashlights. After much thought, the Scoutmaster brought this up to the PLC, and the troop’s youth leaders came up with this: Once a year, there would be an “electronics weekend” where the Scouts could bring along anything they wanted… gameboys, cell phones, anything! BUT, in order to “qualify” to go on this weekend, a Scout had had to do a specific minimum number of non-electronic campouts during the year, and the number was set by the PLC (not the adults!). Last I heard, it was working. <\/span><\/p>\n

This may not give any clues on how to resolve your own situation, but it does point up that, given a problem and tasked to solve it, Scouts will definitely rise to the occasion!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Hello Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

I have a question about the eligibility of Scouts to be awarded a U.S. Flag. Traditionally in our pack, each Webelos II is awarded an American Flag in addition to an actual arrow in the Arrow of Light ceremony. However, one or more Webelos Scouts may not have completed all requirements for the Arrow of Light and therefore not receive it. Of course, they wouldn\u2019t receive an arrow, but would they still qualify for the flag? (Saie-Yau Hui, WIIDL, Capitol Area Council, TX)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

This being the tradition of your particular pack, I’d say the decision rests with the adult volunteers of that pack\u2014only you all can decide what these boys should receive. What were the original criteria? Was it a bit of extra icing on the cake when a Webelos Scout earned his Arrow of Light rank? Or was it for some other reason? If it’s a bonus for having earned the Arrow of Light (which impression I’m getting, here), then of course all Webelos who complete that rank become eligible, simple as that! But this decision is yours! As to who, in the pack, would best be making the decision, I\u2019d say that it would be either all committee members plus the Cubmaster and all Den Leaders, and all registered assistant DLs; but if you needed to reduce that number to a more efficient minimum, I\u2019d say that since it\u2019s part of the program side of the equation and not something that\u2019s administrative it\u2019s the decision of the Cubmaster and Den Leaders.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Hello Andy,<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My son crossed over to Boy Scouts this past April and went to Scout camp this summer, where I was a Camp Commissioner in the same period. In the time he was at camp, he\u2019d completed 12 merit badges and had three more \u201cpartials,\u201d which he completed back home after returning from camp.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

On learning of this, my son\u2019s Scoutmaster complained that he shouldn\u2019t be interested in \u201cjust earning merit badges\u201d and that his father (me) must have \u201cpushed him to do this.\u201d I informed the Scoutmaster that my son had done all of the necessary prerequisite paperwork for all 12 at home, before he\u2019d even arrived at camp, and so they were largely a breeze, and as for the other three, he decided to do those while he was at camp since he had time in the evenings to complete the work for them, so it wasn\u2019t all that hard. <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My son wants to continue earning merit badges, and he knows several Merit Badge Counselors in our area and what ones they cover, and he wants to start some of these right now, before winter really sets in.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

The Scoutmaster\u2019s response to my son\u2019s requests for \u201cblue cards\u201d for these is that he won\u2019t allow my son to do the merit badges unless the Merit Badge Counselor agrees to counsel the entire troop of Scouts. These Merit Badge Counselors have countered by offering their merit badges to any Scout who will show up on Saturdays for counseling.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

The Scoutmaster next claimed that my son was \u201cgetting special treatment\u201d from these counselors because I’m a Commissioner, and this puts the rest of the Scouts in the troop at a disadvantage, so his solution to this unfairness is that not only my son but all Scouts in the troop can only work with troop-specific Merit Badge Counselors; \u201coutside\u201d counselors are now effectively off the playing field.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

So (finally, and thanks for your patience) here\u2019s my question: Is it mandatory that a Scout (any<\/em> Scout) must work on merit badges only with troop-specific Merit Badge Counselors, to the exclusion of MBCs who operate at the district or council level? Can a troop make something like this a \u201ctroop policy\u201d?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

My son has friends in this troop and wants to stay with them; but I\u2019m sensing that if this Scoutmaster is acting unilaterally and now making up \u201cpolicies\u201d that are counter to the methods and intent of the BSA merit badge program, we might have to find him a new troop. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. (Name & Council Withheld)<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Of course we both know that your son’s Scoutmaster is full of beans, and so does your son. The BSA states very clearly that (a) any Scout can begin work on any merit badge any time he wishes, (b) there are no prerequisites placed on any Scout seeking any merit badge, (c) a Scoutmaster cannot unreasonably or arbitrarily withhold a “blue card” (aka merit badge application) from any Scout for any reason, (d) it is not required that any merit badge be done on a group basis and no individual or unit may make and decrees in antithesis of this, and (e) any Scout can go to any Merit Badge Counselor he wishes; neither a unit nor an individual can demand that a Scout go to any particular Merit Badge Counselor. Finally, the BSA also states that once the Merit Badge Counselor has signed that a merit badge’s requirements have been completed, any sort of re-test, review, “challenge,” or further “examination” of the Scout is strictly prohibited. (The Scoutmaster\u2019s signature on the inside of the application\u2019s first segment is merely and only to demonstrate that the earning of the merit badge has been duly noted and recorded.)<\/span><\/p>\n

Perhaps it’s high time you and several other like-minded fathers met personally with the Committee Chair and the troop’s Advancement Coordinator and told these two individuals that you don’t like how your sons are being treated by the Scoutmaster, that the Scoutmaster is acting in violation of BSA policies and procedures, and that if this doesn’t stop immediately you all are going to go find a troop that gets it right and transfer your sons, en masse, out of this troop. You can do this respectfully and politely\u2026and firmly. This is not a time to walk small; these are your sons\u2019 lives we\u2019re talking about. Finally, if any dad is concerned about \u201churting the feelings\u201d of the Scoutmaster or anyone else, he simply needs to ask himself if the emotional well-being of an adult who should know better than to hold boys\u2019 natural curiosity and enthusiasm hostage trumps the emotional well-being of his son.<\/span><\/p>\n

Happy Scouting!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Andy<\/span><\/h3>\n<\/form>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n
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Got a question? Have an idea? Send it to AskAndyBSA@yahoo.com<\/a>. (Please include your POSITION and COUNCIL NAME or TOWN & STATE)<\/p>\n

(December 4, 2010 \u2013 Copyright \u00a9 Andy McCommish 2010)<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

Letters to AskAndy may be published at the discretion of the columnist and the editor. If you prefer to have your name or affiliation withheld from publication, please advise in your letter..<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Dear Andy, About not making Eagle, no question here, but a comment on your answer to that gal whose friend regrets not making Eagle. Many of the guys I know in Scouting are in that same category, including myself. Serving as Advancement Coordinator for my troop, I sometimes point out to our Scouts that I […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-893","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-6"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/893","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=893"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/893\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":894,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/893\/revisions\/894"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=893"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=893"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/netcommissioner.com\/askandy\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=893"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}