Issue 572 – August 2, 2018

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Hello Andy,

As the advancement coordinator for our troop, I’m looking to promote the National Outdoor Awards program. We have a very active troop and I’m sure there are many Scouts who would strive to achieve more if they have a goal in mind. As I’ve been learning more about this program, I discovered an article where Eric Hiser states that the camping nights from Cub Scouts are to be counted in the National Outdoor Camping segment. As much as I’ve read this over and over, I still can’t see why this would be accurate. There are comments that these fall under the “auspices of the BSA,” which would be true; however, why would a Boy Scout award count Cub Scout activity in the qualification criteria? This seems to be out of line with the spirit of other awards, badges, and rank requirements.

In the end, this may not be overly important, but since this appears to be unique, why wouldn’t this be stated clearly in the listed requirements for the award? The primary article is from “Bryan On Scouting” on March 13, 2014. Here’s the link: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/03/13/interpreting-under-the-auspices-in-national-outdoor-awards-requirements/#comment-3751955613

I hope you can help clarify this for me, and if we’re to include Cub Scout camping for Boy Scouts, shed some light as to why. Thanks! (Tom DiGuido)

Eric Hiser, whoever he may be, is full o’ beans. Check for yourself: https://www.scouting.org/programs/boy-scouts/youth/awards/noa/
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Hi Andy,

I need your advice. I think I know what to do, but I want to double-check with you. As I mentioned in my last message to you, we have two patrols plus three older youth leaders—our SPL, one ASPL, and one JASM. One patrol—the Wolverines—includes five Scouts who are all 14 years old. The other—the Falcons—has eight Scouts right now: two age 10, three age 11, and three age 12. It’s very likely we’ll be picking up two more: twins age 12.

One of my ASMs is suggesting that we should pull a Wolverine out of his patrol so he can be the Patrol Leader for the Falcons (he thinks they need an older Scout to be in charge). I’m not going to let this happen; I think the Falcons will do just fine and, as adults, the job our ASM and I have is to guide them along as they and their Patrol Leader-from-within mature.

So should the Falcons (and two sets of brothers) be split up into another patrol? Thanks for your help with this. (John Burnham)

First, your ASM needs to understand that patrols elect their own patrol leaders; they never get “assigned” one.

If a new-Scout patrol’s elected Patrol Leader needs some help, he gets this from an older Scout who takes on the position of Troop Guide. “Troop Guide” is actually an incorrect name for this role. A more accurate title would be “Patrol Leader Coach,” because that’s what he does. He doesn’t “run” the patrol; he coaches the elected Patrol Leader so that that Scout can do his job. Further, the backup for this Troop Guide is an Assistant Scoutmaster, who in turn coaches the Troop Guide (but he doesn’t coach the PL…that’s the TG’s job). Refer to your TROOP LEADER GUIDEBOOK for more on this structure and process.

So the Falcons will shortly have ten Scouts. You, as Scoutmaster, and your ASM or ASMs absolutely don’t decide what to do here except that you know that a patrol of ten is way too large, regardless of the Scouts’ ages.

Here’s where you rely on your troop’s Senior Patrol Leader. Your SPL sits down with these ten Scouts and explains that ten is too large and it also doesn’t allow for any internal growth in patrol size. So he asks the Scouts to divide themselves into two groups of five each, and steps aside (as do you). The Scouts themselves then make this decision, understanding that all ten must be in a patrol—no one “left out.”

Once they do this, the SPL asks each group to give themselves a name (other than “Falcons”—they each need a new name) and, again, steps aside. Once each new group has a new patrol name, they each elect their own Patrol Leader. Then they’re assigned a Troop Guide, and they’re off and running!

Keep foremost in mind through all of this that the fundamental Boy Scout unit isn’t the “troop”–it’s the PATROL. Eschew The Patrol Method and it’s not Scouting anymore…it’s just a bunch of boys in tan shirts.
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Hi Andy,

Our district “Key 3” is struggling with getting our district committee members trained and functioning. We finally have some buy-in to get trained, but now we’re not sure what they need to do, to get trained. Some have completed the BSA’s “D61” training; most haven’t. And now there’s a rumor floating around that the national office is working on a new e-training module (it’s supposed to be following the same pattern of multiple sessions, but no description of the individual sessions has been released yet). We don’t want to lose the momentum to get these folks trained, but we don’t want them trained with an obsolete course!

Our first blush is to simply go to the classroom-based District Committee Training Workshop (D61) last printed in 2012. But if we do that, it’s possible it may not count as “trained.” Do you have any thoughts or information that might help, especially on the issue of whether the D61 training will still be considered “trained,” or if we’ll have to retrain when the “new” one is released? (Bill Cox, District Vice-Chair, East Texas Area Council)

Not to worry—The BSA rarely overhauls an entire training curriculum. More often, there may be subtle adjustments or refinements or updates, but that’s usually about it. Moreover, for being considered “trained,” so long as the group has taken the training that’s “official at the time of training,” it counts, and that’s per the BSA! So yes, go ahead with D61 for your district committee and, if this is changed some time in the future, it’ll still count and you’ll just want to see what adjustments have been made so that everyone’s even more current. Not a “biggie” here (thank goodness)!

(BTW, I do have some personal experience with this… I wrote a training module that was added to the nationally-produced “Meetings of the District” instructional video that was used for some ten years throughout every BSA council without changing a single syllable!)
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Hi Andy,

You recently referred to a patrol of older boys as an “older patrol,” but I do remember seeing some information in the past few years about troops having a Venture Patrol. What happened to the idea of a Venture Patrol? (John Pinchot)

“Venture Patrol” for older and more experienced Boy Scouts, was a term used for a bunch of years but now appears to have gone the way of the Dodo bird… The 2017 edition of the SCOUT LEADER GUIDEBOOK is silent on this name in both of its indexes. The concept, however, can certainly be put to use in a troop because the needs and capabilities of a patrol of 15- through 17-year old Scouts will be much different from when they entered the troop as a new-Scout patrol a bunch of years (and ranks) earlier. In this regard, it might be worth noting two things. First, the use of “Venture” in a Boy Scout troop has, in my experience, created some confusion, what with Venturing crews often being called “Venture crews.” Second, a patrol that enters a troop as, let’s say, the Butt-Kickin’ Bears” stays the BKBs throughout their entire journey, till they age out, whether they wear that “VENTURE” strip above their right pocket flap or not.
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Hi Andy,

So has the BSA stopped printing Totin’ Chips and Firem’n Chits? All I see these days are the flap-shaped patches that Scouts wear on both pocket flaps of their uniform shirts. (Tony Riga)

The chips and chits are cards, still. The patches that the supply division sells state (in the catalog and online) that they’re not for uniform wear.

Happy Scouting!

Andy

Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you’d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that’s what we’ll do.)

[No. 572 – 8/2/2018 – Copyright © Andy McCommish 2018]