Issue 584 – January 29, 2019

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Hi Andy,

On that question about how to “tent” an odd number of Scouts, my troop has used double-door “Timberline II’s” for that situation. The Scouts pitch two of these tents door-to-door, with a slight offset for entering and exiting. (Thomas Linton)

Great idea! Thanks!!!
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Hi Andy,

In that case of an adult schism within a Scouting unit, I’m surprised you didn’t suggest getting the Unit Commissioner involved, as this looks like a classic case for UC mediation to help the unit heal itself. (Robby Wright, Assistant District Commissioner, San Diego Imperial Council, CA)

You’re absolutely right—that troop desperately needed a commissioner! But here’s the rub… If one were available to them, they likely wouldn’t be writing to me. In part, this makes my “job” a very sad one, because, for the past 17 years and now approaching six hundred columns, I’ve received thousands of letters (only about 20% or so ever appear in a column) like that father’s, and it frightens me to think about those who haven’t written and have no commissioner to guide them.
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Dear Andy,

My son’s Boy Scout troop has run with the idea of embracing girls, but I think the troop has missed the intent from corporate. The troop now has an all-girl patrol and is planning all campouts to be co-ed. Personally, I’m very uncomfortable with this and don’t think it benefits either the boys or the girls. The council says they can’t “micromanage” troops on this issue. My question is, what do you think is the actual intent of Boy Scouts of America in this area? (Scout Mom)

Thanks for reaching out and taking the time to write. The BSA has been entirely and consistently clear on how SCOUTS BSA troops will operate: All troops will be single-gender only; no troop will be “co-ed.” Period. There will be no girls in formerly boy-only troops and no boy will be permitted to join a troop of girls. In statement after statement—and there have been many!—the BSA has been completely consistent in this regard.

For any council to say that it “can’t ‘micromanage’” a troop (or any BSA unit) is utter nonsense. Unless you’ve been told this by a professional staffer in the council—a District Executive, District Director, or the Scout Executive—you’ve been given horsepucky from a non-qualified source. If a qualified council representative did indeed tell you this, it’s even more nonsensical, and wrong, wrong, wrong.

Further, I’m puzzled that the council registrar didn’t catch this registration glitch at the get-go. Had that happened, the issue would have been resolved at the outset. Because BSA council registrars are pretty sharp people—I’ve become friends with several over the years—I’m actually wondering if this troop has even registered these girls!

That said, if there are two troops—one of boys and one of girls—that wish to camp sided-by-side, each with its own adults to provide oversight, this is okay so long as it’s understood that this is parallel camping.

Thanks for your quick response, Andy. Our troop’s adult volunteers are saying that so long as the girls have leadership on paper they don’t really have to be in their own separate troop, so these girls are a patrol within the otherwise all-boy troop and all activities, including every meeting, are co-ed. I did send an email to our local council but have never gotten a response. I also attempted to contact the council via “Facebook message,” to ask that they reiterate the intent of BSA corporate, but have received no response to this, either. (Scout Mom)

Although it’s great that these girls want to be Scouts, they do need to do things the right way. So, instead of having this lame and unorthodox “girls patrol” in the troop, they can register these girls as founding members of a brand new Scouts BSA troop, with the same sponsor, and even the same committee as the boys’ troop, select a separate Scoutmaster (per BSA standards) and charter this all-girl troop as a “linked” troop alongside the boys’ troop. Your local District Executive can guide them through this process so that all’s on the up-and-up.

As for the council’s apparent non-response to your emails, don’t let that be your guide on this, because you have no idea where those emails wound up or if they even arrived. Trust me on this: You need to pick up the phone and make that call. No other method is going to work as well as this.

Hi again, Andy. I should probably add that several of the troop’s adult volunteers are doing what they say is best but it really comes down to the fact that they all have teenage daughters. (Scout Mom)

Well the bottom line here is that your son’s troop is way off the reservation, as I think I’ve been pretty clear about. Understand that I wasn’t giving you my “opinion”—that’s the straight skinny from the BSA National Office and applies to every BSA council, district, and unit in America.

If you need to see this in writing from the BSA, go here–https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/…/Scouts-BSA-FAQ-050218-2.pd. Read the whole thing. When you do, you’ll see this Q&A: “Q: If a chartered organization is not able to establish a new troop based on the required number of same-gender youth needed, can boy patrols and girl patrols be combined to form a troop? A: No. A new troop must be started using the current youth and adult requirements; however, chartered organizations can consider the linked troop model so that the newly established girl troop will have the same COR and can share the troop committee.”
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Hi Andy,

A fellow Scouter and I are trying to wrap our heads around the camping nights for the Order of the Arrow. The five nights of long-term camping is clear, but the composition of the short-term camping isn’t—at least to us!

For the short-term camping, am I correct that those nights must be earned at campout of no more than three nights’ duration? So if the Scout earns his five nights at “Camp Runamuck” during his troop’s summer camp week in “year one,” he can’t count camping nights at Camp Runamuck when the troop goes back there for a week in the summer of “year two”? If that’s the case, what’s the logic behind this?

And then, how does this apply to the camping nights required for the Camping Merit Badge? Are the requirements for long-term versus short-term nights the same as the OA membership requirements? (Lee Murray, SM, Nevada Area Council)

Good questions. Long-ish answer… We have three instances when “camping nights” emerge as requirements or qualifications, and we need to separate them because they’re not identical. The first is camping nights for rank advancement. Second is camping nights for the merit badge. Third is qualifying for an Order of the Arrow troop election. Let’s go…

For Tenderfoot, the Scout will camp one night on a patrol or troop campout in a tent he has helped pitch. For Second Class, the Scout will go on three troop or patrol campouts and, for two of these three (which can include his Tenderfoot overnight), spend a night in a tent or other structure he’s helped pitch or set up. For First Class, it’s a cumulative six times overnight camping (note: not six nights on a single campout), and five of these six (which can include the one Tenderfoot and two Second Class overnights) will be in a tent or other structure he’s helped pitch or set up. For these three ranks, no long-term camping is required–in fact, they’d be unlikely to “count”—because the idea here is getting out there and having active involvement in patrol and troop outdoor activities!

My guidance for Camping merit badge here is only for nights “on the trail;” be sure to check the details of the full Req. 9, which has three distinct parts! For the overnight camping aspect, it’s no less than 20 nights at “Scouting activities or events” (which include not only troop and patrol campouts but also qualifying Camporees, Jamborees, etc.). All 20 of these nights can be short-term troop or patrol and will be carried out either “under the sky” or in a tent the Scout has pitched, or up to 6 of the 20 nights can be from a single long-term Scout camping experience, such as Scout summer camp or a national or international Jamboree. (The camping nights for Tenderfoot through First Class count toward the 20 for this merit badge.)

For the OA, to qualify for election by his fellow Scouts, the Scout will (a) be at least First Class rank and (b) have camped for 15 (or more) days and nights of Scout camping during the two-year period prior to election. These 15 nights will include one (only) long-term Scout camping experience of at least five consecutive nights. The other 10 nights will be one- or two- or (maximum) 3-night campouts.

These are all linked in one way or another. The 6 short-term nights for First Class can count toward the OA 15, and so can 5 of the 6 nights for Camping Req. 9!

For the OA, the “five consecutive nights” needs to be watched for, in this way: If a Scout, somehow, has just four nights of long-term Scout camping (say at last year’s troop summer camp), he can’t “tack on” just one more night from this current summer’s long-term camping. It needs to be five nights in a row. Conversely, if he went to Scout summer camp for six nights, he can legitimately “drop” one of those nights and count 5 toward the OA qualifications; but he can’t count a second summer’s week-long Scout camp toward the remaining 10 to make up 15 for the OA.

Well, I sure hope we didn’t get out knickers in a knot over this, but it’s about time we laid out all three camping situations!

Happy Scouting!

Andy

Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you’d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that’s what we’ll do.)

[No. 584 – 1/29/2019 – Copyright © Andy McCommish 2019]