Issue 585 – February 5, 2019

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Hi Andy,

In our pack, we have a Cub Scout who’s currently in the 6th grade (middle school), and he’s 9 years old. He started in our pack as a 3rd-grader, at age 6 (his school “skipped” him through kindergarten, 1st, and 2nd grades, based on their evaluations of his intellectual capacity), so, when he came to our pack, we started him at the Bear level, and we made sure our council’s Assistant Scout Executive was aware of this from the very start. Along the way, even though Arrow of Light Cubs can camp without a parent present, we’ve made sure—because of his age—that he had a parent with him for his overnight campout, and confirmed this with our district’s Training Chair.

We’ve just had our “bridging” ceremony, from Arrow of Light (which he’s earned) to Scouts and he was included in this. But now our council is telling us he has to wait till his 10th birthday to become a Scout.

We feel that this council decision about his age is unfair to this boy. He now has to wait three more months to become a Scout, while the rest of his den (now a patrol) forges forward earning ranks as Scouts. Is there some type of variance that could be granted so he can stay with former den friends?

Any suggestions or previous experiences you might have would be greatly appreciated. (Laura)

Let’s begin with the BSA’s standards for joining a troop: “Be a youth who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old…” So the first thing we need to do here is to recognize that your council is acting correctly.

At a personal level, I do understand this dilemma… In grammar school, I was “skipped” a full grade and my younger brother was skipped twice! At that time, the qualification to join a troop was age-based only, and it was “become 11 years old.” So, no matter what grade I, or my brother, had completed, we needed to wait till our 11th birthdays, period. (Despite this, I became an Eagle Scout at age 15 and my brother accomplished this at age 14, and we stayed in the program right up to our 18th birthdays!)

Let’s face the clear fact that this boy is already one to two years younger than his former den-mates. While I certainly understand that intelligence is a significant driver—and this is my personal perspective—so is maturity. Waiting just a bit, till he 10 years old, will serve this boy better in the long run than beginning immediately, particularly when it comes to his relationships with the Scouts of the troop as a whole. So yes, it may be a bother, but it’s not insurmountable. April is a fine month to join a Scout troop, and a three-month lag won’t mean this boy will be forgotten by his friends and he’ll definitely be able to join up with them as soon as he has his 10th birthday!

Personally, I think a little patience for a few months is going to be the better path here, and this certainly doesn’t prevent this boy from reading his own Scout Handbook right now! (I remember reading my own handbook, cover-to-cover, as a boy! It put me on the right track as soon as I joined up!)
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Hi Andy,

About that change in First Class camping requirements, from six to now just three, that you mentioned in your previous column (584a – January 29th), the BSA stated as recently as 2011, “Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature.” Now they seem to be saying, “Never mind.” (Thomas Linton)

The BSA’s current claim is that “outdoor experiences” don’t necessarily mean overnight camping (and here I thought that’s what Scouting was all about). Now, a day playing ultimate Frisbee, or the like, can count as a “true Scouting outdoor activity.” Wow! I can hardly wait!
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Dear Andy,

In 1968, I was an NJLITC (National Junior Leader Instructor Training Camp) at Schiff Scout Reservation, in Mendham, NJ, and I’m wondering if there are any records remaining from those programs at Schiff. Any ideas on this? (Roland Scroggs)

I attended Schiff NJLTC in 1954 and was a Staff Senior Patrol Leader for this program in 1956! I don’t know about the old records, and the BSA sold the property in 1979, which is a pretty long time ago! But, heck, why not call the national office in Texas and see if they can put you on to someone who might help? It’s worth a shot!
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Hi Andy,

This is about your response to the question about asking “Do you believe in God?” at an Eagle Board of Review.

I have some familiarity with this. As a former District Advancement Chair, I recall having at least two Life Scouts assert no belief in a deity at their Eagle rank boards of review. In both instances, the reviewers took a recess and conferred with the Scoutmaster and troop committee members. In each instance, the Scoutmaster was given time to separately discuss the matter with the Scout. In one instance it became clear the Scout was operating under the impression that not attending religious services made him a non-believer, and that was resolved in open discussion with the reviewers. In the second instance, the Scout was a Christian Scientist, which—successfully—led to a discussion of beliefs. Ultimately, both Scouts were awarded their Eagle rank. Had either Scout clearly and steadfastly maintained an atheist position, they would have been denied rank and advised of the appeal process then in effect.

Your response assigned culpability to the Scoutmaster for not living up to his responsibilities. That response, in my view, should have been balanced to include the Scout’s responsibilities.

By the time a Scout presents himself for an Eagle board of review, he has attended troop meetings for as many as six years. Meetings’ opening ceremonies include recitation of the Scout Oath and Law; so, for as many as six years, he’s been saying “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God…” and “A Scout is reverent.” Words mean things, even for Scout-age youth.

Thanks for the opportunity to offer my view on this. (Eric Augustine, SM, Lake Erie Council, OH)

This is an advice column and I don’t ordinarily lean toward “forum”-style; however, in light of the importance of this particular topic, I’m making an exception. Thanks for taking the time to write to me.

Your points are well-founded and you’ll hear no significant disagreement from me. I will point out that, while at least one Scoutmaster conference is required for rank advancement, such conferences are by no means limited to just one per rank interval; a Scoutmaster is completely open—encouraged, in fact—to chat individually with the Scouts of the troop he serves as often as he and each Scout would like. The Scoutmaster also has the opportunity to observe his Scouts at meetings, campouts, summer camp, and so on, and one would hope this includes observing them on Sunday mornings at such events, when they go to chapel or vespers—assuming these are still done at summer camp and on campouts (this is why the BSA provides guidelines for holding a “Scouts’ Own” service).

In addition to never less than six ongoing Scoutmaster conferences, the troop’s committee members, prior to Eagle, have had no less than six—Tenderfoot through Life ranks (there’s none for Scout rank)—board of review opportunities to chat with each advancing Scout about his religious beliefs. In short, it is definitely an adult shortcoming to wait until the Scout is a rising Eagle to bring this aspect up for the first time.

But even if the Eagle board of review appears to be the very first time this issue is addressed, it actually does come up beforehand: it happens when the Scout is asked to provide a religious reference on his application for Eagle Scout rank. Assuming the Scout is being guided by his Scoutmaster or other troop-connected adult (for instance, a committee member), it’s entirely likely that the non-churchgoing Scout will have a question about whom he should list on the application. When this happens, the door just opened to have that conversation!

I recall a specific instance, while I served as Scoutmaster, when this latter situation happened. The Scout came to me with exactly that question: “Who do I list on my application when my entire family doesn’t attend church?” Of course, I helped him through this and what he had feared would be an issue as big as the Grand Canyon turned out to be—much to his relief—little more than a crack in the sidewalk.

In another instance, a Scout was asked, in a board of review that I, as Scoutmaster, sat in on as an observer, what church or temple his family attended, and the Scout’s reply was that his parents are atheists. The Scout was immediately rejected by the reviewers as unqualified to advance to Eagle rank until I—with more insight thanks to many chats with this Scout over the years—intervened by asking the reviewers to ask the Scout about his own beliefs. They were startled, but honored my request. Turned out, this Scout—despite his parents’ points-of-view—definitely held a strong belief in a “Prime Mover” of the universe, and was happy to describe how he, personally, felt about this in relation to the “Duty to God…” he’d sworn to uphold as a Scout.
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Hi Andy,

I have several new parents who believe that, because the “Scoutbook” software is now free, that also applies to the Scout Handbook as well, and have little intention to buy a handbook for their new Scouts. How do I encourage those parents to buy a Scout Handbook? (Josef Rosenfeld, SM, Westchester-Putnam Council, NY)

The Scout Handbook is NOT primarily for record-keeping or requirement-checking; it’s for READING -> COVER-TO-COVER! That includes highlighting, dog-earing pages, margin notes, and everything else that goes with a book they’ll keep for the rest of their lives! (Yes, I still have mine, and it’s well over 60 years old!)

To not have your own Handbook is like not owning your own shoes—you’ll need both for your Scouting journey!

Happy Scouting!

Andy

Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you’d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that’s what we’ll do.)

[No. 585 – 2/5/2019 – Copyright © Andy McCommish 2019]