Issue 626 – January 28, 2020

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Hi Andy,

In your column last week, you helped an Eagle Scout straighten out the real date of his board of review. I’m also glad to see that the board of review member who was blatantly wrong was taken away. The reality is that a huge proportion of Scouts these days reach Eagle rank at age 17.99. When we then consider the time needed to get the project report written (yes, this is perfectly okay to do after a Scout’s 18th birthday), the Eagle rank application processed, receiving the Scout’s references, and having the district or council advancement representative match his or her schedule with the others who will sit on the board of review often pushes the time of that review beyond three months past the Scout’s 18th birthday. To better manage this, my own council has issued blanket preapproval for three-to-six months past 18. And, as for myself, I’ve honestly never heard of the national office turning down an Eagle board of review request past the six-month mark. (Matt Culbertson, New Birth of Freedom Council, PA)

Thanks for your commentary – It’s always good to hear from you. My own take on your council’s action is that it makes absolute sense.
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Hi, Andy,

Last week, you said, “…OA members can and should wear their lodge’s flap patch or the ribbon-and-arrow button-pendant…one or the other but never both…” I have to take issue with that. According to the BSA’s GUIDE TO AWARDS AND INSIGNIA, there’s no prohibition for wearing both. The BSA states that the ribbon “denotes membership” in the OA and that lodges may create their own “flap” patches. This means there’s no overlap. (Robby Wright, ACC, San Diego-Imperial Council, CA)

Thanks for writing! Yup, there’s no “prohibited by law” associated with either the ribbon or the patch or both at the same time… It’s just sorta tacky to wear both when one will suffice (conversely, neither is “mandatory”). So for sure I wasn’t quoting chapter-and-verse. I was, however, providing an insight that helps keep our uniforms clean and sharp (and not redundant).

Some folks like to wear everything they possibly can, and this sometimes shows up with multiple Scouter’s Key and James E. West Fellow “square knots.” (Frankly, if I did this I’d be wearing seven identical square knots instead of two for these recognitions). Other folks are a little calmer about that, and I guess these are the ones I was mostly talking to. Thanks for making it clear that my comment was about a practice and not a rule.

(Meanwhile, I’m still hoping that, some day, folks will read—Yup, this one’s in writing by the BSA—that the “Totin’ Chip” and “Firem’n Chit” flap-style patches aren’t for uniform wear at all!)
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Hi Andy,

As usual, you provided some great answers last week. I’m glad to know that that council was on the ball and fixed the Eagle’s rank date. That “inconvenienced” advancement guy reminds me of an Assistant District Commissioner who interrupted my short chat with our troop’s newest Eagle after his review… Mister ADC walked up to us and pointed to the new Eagle’s OA flap patch and said (yeah, he really said this), “You’ll have to take that off now; Eagle Scouts aren’t allowed to be in the Order of the Arrow.” This was the same ADC who ordered me to stop wearing my Wood Badge beads because, since my course was more than three years prior, the beads had “expired,” and I should also remove my couple of rows of “square knots” (including the District Award of Merit and Silver Beaver) because they had been issued by my prior council, not the current one I was a member of.

Like smart ducks, we’ve got to let this stuff roll off our backs, because there are just too many jerks-who-think-they-know-it-all out there. (Dean Whinery)

It’s always risky to argue with idiots… They’ll try to drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!
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Hi Andy,

Some years ago, at the Philmont Training Center, one of our fellow Scoutmasters did a sort of “minute” using a quarter…one of the older ones with George Washington on the front and the eagle on the back. He mentioned that this is something he does with all brand-new Scouts at their first conference with him. He’d begin by talking a little bit about Washington…revolutionary general, first US president, and so on. Then he’d flip the quarter over and talk a bit about the eagle…a symbol of strength, the nation’s symbol, and so on. Then he’d mention that the Eagle is also Scouting’s highest rank. He’d suggest to this new Scout that maybe he’d like to strive for that…to be an Eagle, too. He ended by give the Scout that quarter, saying, “Keep this quarter as a reminder, and when you become an Eagle, I’d like my quarter back, because you’ll be done with it.”

On returning from Philmont, I did this for a little while, but I let myself get distracted and it just sort of evaporated.

Well just last week, I visited my old troop—the one I’d been Scoutmaster for. It happened to be a court of honor for a brand-new Eagle Scout. After the various presentations to him, it was his turn to speak. Toward the end of his thank you’s, he mentioned that, several years before, he’d been given a quarter as a reminder of the goal he’d reached that evening. He remembered that when he got home from his troop meeting that first night, he’d put that quarter in a box on his desk, so he wouldn’t lose it. He remarked that there were times over the past several years when he’d wanted to quit, but then he’d put the box with that quarter on his nightstand, as a closer reminder. Then he asked me to come up and stand with him. He turned to me. “You told me that when I made Eagle, you wanted your quarter back. So here it is. It’s the same one you gave me.”

I now have that quarter my shelf with other Scouting memories; it’ll never end up in a parking meter. Scout’s Honor. (Gary Marquard)

Thanks for sharing! The greatest “paycheck” a Scoutmaster can ever receive is to be remembered–years later–by a Scout he’d helped along the way.
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Hi Andy,

Your Eagle Scout who got his date fixed reminded me of some other stuff that can go wrong at boards of review, that I’ve seen over the years. The one that particularly disturbs me is the notion that a Scout can “fail” a board of review. This got me to thinking that maybe people “fail” Scouts at reviews because they misunderstand the purpose of Scouting’s ranks.

They may think that we’re trying to train and certify young men in skills. We’re not. We’re trying to provide them with experiences that will shape their ethical outlook.

It’s great when a Scout remembers how to tie a bowline or identify a plant, but that’s not the point. He may never need to do either for the rest of his life, but the experience of doing these things and more, with good friends and role models, in a Scouting environment, will shape him forever.

So then, a board of review isn’t for verifying what the Scout has learned. It’s for verifying that the Scout is having the right kind of experiences.

The only one who can fail a Board of Review is the Scoutmaster. (Samuel Mize, SM, Circle Ten Council, TX)

Every now and again, I read something and think to myself, I wish I’d said that. This is one of those times. Thanks!

Happy Scouting!

Andy

Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you’d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that’s what we’ll do.)

Although these columns are copyrighted, any reader has my permission to quote or reproduce any columns or column parts so long as you attribute authorship: “Ask Andy” by Andy McCommish.

[No. 626 – 1/28/2020 – Copyright © Andy McCommish 2020]