Issue 630 – February 25, 2020

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Hi Andy,

I’m the Chartered Organization Representative for a Scouts BSA troop. Unlike the prior person in this slot, who was an “in title only” sort of guy, I’ve been pretty involved with the committee chair and Scoutmaster. Currently, the three of us are updating the troop’s “discipline policy” documents.

Up to now, when a boy joins the troop we’d give his parents a packet with several sections: general rules and guidelines for meetings and campouts; the troop disciplinary policy and the committee actions pertaining to that policy; Scout responsibilities; and a few other documents like contact lists, troop stats, and a “welcome” letter. The packet also included a “signature” page for the parents, stating that they and their son would adhere to the troop’s discipline policies.

Between the committee chair, Scoutmaster, and me, we decided to drop that signature page. But when we showed the new packet—with the parent “signature” page now gone—to the troop committee, their resistance to the omission of that page was unanimous and immediate. They wanted it in there!

We explained to them that we already have the Scout Oath and Law, and there’s no BSA requirement anywhere that talks about any sort of “parent signature” page. In response, they threw back at us that the BSA has codes of conduct for events like Jamborees, and that’s why we need to have that signature page. We reemphasized that nowhere in any BSA material is there a required signature page. But the committee continued to argue that the signature page is important because parents need to know the exact steps of disciplinary action the committee will be taking for misconduct and transgressions by their sons.

While the three of us really want this signature page gone, we don’t want to alienate the troop committee either. What do we do in a situation like this? Thanks in advance for your help. (CR, CC, and SM)

Rule #29: Two things you never want to see being made: Sausages and unit bylaws. (Thank you, Mark Twain)

The BSA already has all the “rules and regulations” needed to successfully operate a Boy Scout troop. Just follow the TROOP LEADER GUIDEBOOK. If you do this, you’ll find that in its nearly four hundred pages there’s not one single mention of any parent or youth “signing” anything other than the basic membership application. Moreover, the subject of “discipline” occupies less than one-quarter of one page out of the four hundred, and that should tell you how important a topic that is.

When a Scout troop, or any youth-serving organization for that matter, begins its “welcome” to youth and their parents with “rules” on “discipline,” I can tell you without hesitation: They’re in the wrong business.

To be perfectly clear: If your troop’s committee members are more invested in “discipline” than they are in supporting the activities the Scouts want to do, fire every last one of them. Immediately. And as for that “introductory” packet, throw the whole thing into the nearest dumpster and don’t look back.

Scouting is the one place—probably the only place—in a boy’s or girl’s life that doesn’t have “don’t do this” and “don’t do that” rules! Everything in Scouting is about what to do—this is absolutely deliberate and critically important. The Scout Law, for instance is all about what a Scout is and does; there’s not one blessed word about “if you don’t (fill in the blank) then the ‘punishment’ will be (fill in the blank).”

“Disciplinary action” is the antithesis of what Scouting’s all about. Anyone who hasn’t figured that out should be taken out back and tossed in the nearest dumpster.

Thank you so much, Andy! That’s exactly what we thought; thank you for putting it in writing for us.
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Hello Andy,

My Eagle Scout son is currently serving as Junior Assistant Scoutmaster for his troop. He’ll be turning 18 in a couple of months and then he’ll be off to college in late August. He’s going to be sticking around and continuing to help the troop while he finishes out his senior year and before he goes to college in the fall, so we’ve been reading about the Unit College Scouter Reserve position and how it can be useful for Scouts who will be aging out and going away to college but still want to be registered with their troop.

For this summer, since he’ll be 18 by then, camping trips and summer camp will be a little different for him. If he signs on as a full-blown Assistant Scoutmaster before he heads off to college, he’ll be hanging out with the troop’s “old goats” instead of his buddies who haven’t hit their 18th birthdays yet. But we’re wondering if he can just sign up as a Unit College Scouter Reserve as soon as he’s 18 instead of ASM until August. Besides, if he goes the ASM route, he’ll need to take special training for this, which seems a bit overboard for a situation that’ll last only a couple of months at the most.

Also, we’ve not been able to find a badge for the UCSR position. Is there a badge for this position? Short of him registering as an ASM and getting trained, I’m not sure that Scouting has any other options for him. Any ideas on this, Andy? Thanks! (Roger Burcroff, Michigan Crossroads Council)

You’re right – Once your son turns 18, he’s no longer a youth member; he’s considered an adult and, to continue in Scouting, he’ll need to register as such. You’re also correct that he has a couple of options including Assistant Scoutmaster as well as the Scouter Reserve position you mentioned (there are actually two such registration options; one is at the troop level and the other’s at the district level—check with your council’s registrar on which would be the better option).

Once he’s an adult, his opportunity to camp with youth members ends. He now camps (and shares campsites and tents) with his troop’s other adults. Since, at 18, he’s likely the “probie” or “newbie,” it’s better if another 18 year-old friend of his (former Scout or not!) signs on as well, so they each have a same-aged “buddy” (makes for more fun this way, too!).

There’s another option if an 18 year-old still wants to go hiking and camping with his buddies and not with a troop’s “geezers”…He and his buddies can join a Venturing crew. The “age-out” birthday for Venturers is 21! And even better, Venturing is co-ed!
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Hi Andy,

Pretty soon, it’s going to be time for summer camp sign-ups. We’re hoping you can help us head off a problem from last year that’s likely to get repeated. It’s one we just don’t know how to handle.

We have a Scout in our troop, let’s call him “Dewey,” who shows up at troop meetings every now and then but with no consistency, and he now 15 and is still a Tenderfoot. When we’ve asked his mother about why he’s not showing up, she just says he’s “busy with lots of things” but never says what they are. Now, Dewey’s mother wants him to go to camp again. We think it’s because she just wants him out of the house for a week or so in the summer, but that’s another story.

At camp last year, Dewey refused to go to vespers—something the whole camp does every Sunday evening—because, as he told us, “I’m an agnostic, so you can’t make me go to something I don’t believe in.”

At this camp, “vespers” is hardly heavy-duty religion. Mostly, it’s a quiet time of contemplation for the good things live gives us, along with a few quiet, gentle camp songs. It lasts about a half-hour, and—quite honestly—is a really nice way to just settle down a bit after the evening meal.

Anyway, since Dewey refused to go, we were forced to have two adults stay in the troop campsite with him, where he did nothing but read a couple of comic books till the rest of the troop returned from the dining hall.

He also ignores his patrol’s “duty roster.” For instance, when it’s time for tent clean-up each morning, and it’s his turn to sweep off the tent platform or something else around the patrol site, he disappears to the latrine—“I have a tummy ache,” he’ll claim, so some other Scout gets stuck doing Dewey’s job. We’ve even assigned Dewey a “buddy,” but he always goes straight to the rifle range even when he’s supposed to be with his buddy.

We don’t want to refuse any boy the opportunity to go to camp, but considering how Dewey acts, it just seems unfair to the other Scouts and to the adults as well. Do you have any ideas on how we can handle this? (Puzzled Scoutmaster and ASMs in Oklahoma)

I understand your problem here, and I agree that it puts a strain on everyone to have a young man like Dewey in your midst. As I re-read your letter, it occurred to me that there’s something missing. Maybe you’ve done it but didn’t mention it… Where’s the eyeball-to-eyeball sit-down conversation between you and your troop’s committee chair, and Dewey’s mother?

I agree that no boy should be arbitrarily refused an opportunity to go to camp, but that’s not the situation here. This particular young man gives the appearance of being incorrigible, and that’s definitely grounds for refusing to have him join the troop at summer camp, because—yes, you’re absolutely correct—his actions are indeed unfair to youth and adults both.

So sit down with his mother and tell her that her son can’t come to camp with the troop this summer, and include all of the reasons why this decision has been made, just like you’ve told me. That should be the end of it, but let’s say, for instance, that she pushes the issue by assuring you her son won’t repeat his former ways. Your response can be that you’ll agree to this, but only if she agrees to be prepared to personally drive to the camp and retrieve him immediately, should there be a relapse of any kind. If she’s not willing to agree to this, then your answer remains no.

The bottom line is that you all aren’t professional child therapists and, as lay volunteers, you can’t be expected to deal with deep-seated problems—which Dewey has certainly displayed—at the cost of other youth. Yes, this boy needs help, but you can’t sacrifice the other Scouts in the troop for this. It feels harsh, but it’s reality.

And, since you mentioned it, this “agnostic” stuff is obviously baloney—just another way to get what he wants, at your expense. The counter to that sort of stuff is simple: You can’t run around repeating the Scout Oath and Law and at the same time call yourself an agnostic. You go with your troop or you call your mother right this minute and tell her to come and take you home; there are no other options.

Happy Scouting!

Andy

Have a question? Facing a dilemma? Wondering where to find a BSA policy or guideline? Write to askandybsa@yahoo.com. Please include your name and council. (If you’d prefer to be anonymous, if published, let me know and that’s what we’ll do.)

Although these columns are copyrighted, any reader has my permission to quote or reproduce any columns or column parts so long as you attribute authorship: “Ask Andy” by Andy McCommish.

[No. 630 – 2/25/2020 – Copyright © Andy McCommish 2020]